Delabo

beyond economic repair ?

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14 minutes ago, jezzupe said:

I'm not sure how far he is from the sf bay area

About 3000 miles, and probably about the same for the OP. Havent been there in quite a while, but a great shop and nice guy.

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20 hours ago, jezzupe said:

I'm not sure how far he is from the sf bay area,but I know Bruce Sexauer and Tony Lane work together often , basically a top guitar guy and violin guy.

I don't know Bruce but when I was in 9th grade I had a friend named John Sexauer who was a bit of a trouble maker. One day we were in class when a very prim young lady showed up from the principal's office, knocked on the door and asked the teacher "Do you have a Sexauer in this class?". The young male teacher without batting an eye replied "Honey, we don't even get a coffee break".

I'm sure today that would cost him his job but to a class of 14 year olds it brought the house down.

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2 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

I don't know Bruce but when I was in 9th grade I had a friend named John Sexauer who was a bit of a trouble maker. One day we were in class when a very prim young lady showed up from the principal's office, knocked on the door and asked the teacher "Do you have a Sexauer in this class?". The young male teacher without batting an eye replied "Honey, we don't even get a coffee break".

I'm sure today that would cost him his job but to a class of 14 year olds it brought the house down.

:lol:

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2 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

I don't know Bruce but when I was in 9th grade I had a friend named John Sexauer who was a bit of a trouble maker. One day we were in class when a very prim young lady showed up from the principal's office, knocked on the door and asked the teacher "Do you have a Sexauer in this class?". The young male teacher without batting an eye replied "Honey, we don't even get a coffee break".

I'm sure today that would cost him his job but to a class of 14 year olds it brought the house down.

Iol...

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3 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

I don't know Bruce but when I was in 9th grade I had a friend named John Sexauer who was a bit of a trouble maker. One day we were in class when a very prim young lady showed up from the principal's office, knocked on the door and asked the teacher "Do you have a Sexauer in this class?". The young male teacher without batting an eye replied "Honey, we don't even get a coffee break".

I'm sure today that would cost him his job but to a class of 14 year olds it brought the house down.

Gee, I've got to look in on this thread more often.  At about the same age, I had a very earnest but much harassed English teacher named Glasscock.  The less said after that, the better.  :lol:

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32 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Gee, I've got to look in on this thread more often.  At about the same age, I had a very earnest but much harassed English teacher named Glasscock.  The less said after that, the better.  :lol:

And.... I most certainly had colleges named Mr. and Mrs. Dick. Mr. Dick taught chemistry in the same science department as Mrs Overfelt. (no kidding!)

DLB

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Regarding attribution (of the OP instrument):

 

I would just like to mention that this “model” of violin enjoyed a fairly widespread popularity across Europe. I can remember, for instance, seeing a Bernhard Wutzelhofer of Brunn exactly along the lines of this model (backwards scroll, edge beading, no corners etc.) and indeed one can see (crumby) pictures of another one in Jalovec's “Bohemian” Book. In my copy it is photo #315. I suppose it is theoretically possible that the one I saw is the same one as the one in the Jalovec book, more lightly though that he made a larger number of these. Elsewhere I haven’t for instance seen a Viennese one, although I wouldn't be surprised if I, at some time in the future, saw a Pathan, or a Stauffer like it, since they were both game for making nutty instruments.

 

When confronted with such an object to identify, one is deprived of almost all the typical features one would normally check, vis. Inside work, corners, edge work, scroll features, f holes, etc. Just because one might have seen a French one at some stage, doesn't mean it is French, and unless it had an undisturbed label or stamp, I think one is pretty much snookered regarding attribution and I would disprove of the frequent urge to “Give the baby a name”.

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15 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

How can you tell if it is "Czech" or not?

Note the word "guess" in my post. More like a suspicion. Just the overall "look" of the scroll/pegbox (blackened) and the look of the neck and wood quality. Not the type of checklist that is easy to check off and be certain, but its enough to be suspicious.

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8 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Regarding attribution (of the OP instrument):

 

I would just like to mention that this “model” of violin enjoyed a fairly widespread popularity across Europe. I can remember, for instance, seeing a Bernhard Wutzelhofer of Brunn exactly along the lines of this model (backwards scroll, edge beading, no corners etc.) and indeed one can see (crumby) pictures of another one in Jalovec's “Bohemian” Book. In my copy it is photo #315. I suppose it is theoretically possible that the one I saw is the same one as the one in the Jalovec book, more lightly though that he made a larger number of these. Elsewhere I haven’t for instance seen a Viennese one, although I wouldn't be surprised if I, at some time in the future, saw a Pathan, or a Stauffer like it, since they were both game for making nutty instruments.

 

When confronted with such an object to identify, one is deprived of almost all the typical features one would normally check, vis. Inside work, corners, edge work, scroll features, f holes, etc. Just because one might have seen a French one at some stage, doesn't mean it is French, and unless it had an undisturbed label or stamp, I think one is pretty much snookered regarding attribution and I would disprove of the frequent urge to “Give the baby a name”.

The Jalovec' Wutzelhofer "Chanot", could it be a Viola? Looking at the very small tailpiece (not possible to tell if it's fullsize, and no sign of a former glued on tailpiece) and the relative broad proportions it could, and that would be an evidence that this maker produced more of this type.

OTOH, I the outline is quite different, more like a very symmetric "8" and the soundholes more straight, not following the outline and are nicked. But maybe there are more close copies out there from outside France, so that it would make sense, as I suggested above, to ask somebody like Rampal. The OP tells us, that his violin is branded inside Maline, so there's a good chance that it might be french, though I could imagine that a copy of a good Viennese (or Znaim) maker won't be worser.

The Ebay example doesn't look that bad in my eyes, we never can know if a darkened pegbox inside is original or a later alteration. I can't see no more reason to call it Bohemian (more adequate for a pre 1919 instrument) than something else - but no prove to call it a Chanot as the seller is doing, too.

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On 12/4/2017 at 1:27 PM, jacobsaunders said:

The problem with taking off the top of an Instrument where the plate edge is flush with the ribs, is not the „taking off“ but the glueing the bloody thing back together again. Since all things under the sun suffer from the same laws of physics, all nearly 200 year old Instruments suffer from the usual „shrinkage“ problematic, i.e. the back/belly shrink slightly in the width, the ribs not. As often as not the ribs require shortening. This means on such a flush edge/rib instrument, that when glueing the plate back on, there is too much edge for not enough rib. This has nothing to do with the suposition that violin resorers are stupid, and that guitar/gamba restorers were born with some sort of silver spoon in there visage.

In addition to this, I'll say as a guitar/mandolin restorer, that that binding to me, looks more like (ovroid,plastic).The probem with this (if it is ovroid), is that as soon as you take it off,it will shrink (as it's under tension now) and your will have to add to length.  Tough to hide.

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22 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Regarding attribution (of the OP instrument):

 

I would just like to mention that this “model” of violin enjoyed a fairly widespread popularity across Europe. I can remember, for instance, seeing a Bernhard Wutzelhofer of Brunn exactly along the lines of this model (backwards scroll, edge beading, no corners etc.) and indeed one can see (crumby) pictures of another one in Jalovec's “Bohemian” Book. In my copy it is photo #315. I suppose it is theoretically possible that the one I saw is the same one as the one in the Jalovec book, more lightly though that he made a larger number of these. Elsewhere I haven’t for instance seen a Viennese one, although I wouldn't be surprised if I, at some time in the future, saw a Pathan, or a Stauffer like it, since they were both game for making nutty instruments.

 

When confronted with such an object to identify, one is deprived of almost all the typical features one would normally check, vis. Inside work, corners, edge work, scroll features, f holes, etc. Just because one might have seen a French one at some stage, doesn't mean it is French, and unless it had an undisturbed label or stamp, I think one is pretty much snookered regarding attribution and I would disprove of the frequent urge to “Give the baby a name”.

Hi again,

I do have a name for mine "MALINE".

As it has a well known French name,I have always assumed it was French,but who knows ?

WIN_20171212_10_03_03_Pro.jpg.7671c6b860b52a920eae2f943cdee40c.jpg

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18 hours ago, deans said:

They can ask for that sort of money,but whether they ever find a buyer is another matter.

I should point out that Chanot copies are being made in China.

https://guide.alibaba.com/shop/copy-of-violin-lab-georges-chanot-paris-1819-rare-d-z-strad-428_59887277.html

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4 hours ago, Jeff White said:

In addition to this, I'll say as a guitar/mandolin restorer, that that binding to me, looks more like (ovroid,plastic).The probem with this (if it is ovroid), is that as soon as you take it off,it will shrink (as it's under tension now) and your will have to add to length.  Tough to hide.

Hi,

I have no idea what "ovroid plastic" is,as an internet search did not yield a positive result. But I have just had a look at the binding with a jewellers loupe in strong sunshine. It does not appear to have a grain,but it does have little longitudinal lines which may be varnish that has cracked. I tried a red hot pin on it,and afterward,viewing it using the jewellers loupe, I can see tiny pin pricks which are not visible to the naked eye. However, it did not melt or burn or smell like plastic.

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20 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Hi again,

I do have a name for mine "MALINE".

As it has a well known French name,I have always assumed it was French,but who knows ?

WIN_20171212_10_03_03_Pro.jpg.7671c6b860b52a920eae2f943cdee40c.jpg

Like mine, and maybe it has too inside, on the top, a pencil inscription like mine.

Fait par Maline a Mirecourt 1831

You could try to see with a mirror or a camera.

 

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3 minutes ago, jandepora said:

Like mine, and maybe it has too inside, on the top, a pencil inscription like mine.

Fait par Maline a Mirecourt 1831

You could try to see with a mirror or a camera.

 

Hi,

I have tried looking with a camera,but I cannot see  a pencil inscription.

But if yours has the same name,burnt or inked in the same manner as mine,then they are likely of the same circa date.

As far as I know,Chanot was not not a luthier himself,so maybe he commissioned others to make them on his behalf ?

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2 hours ago, Delabo said:

Hi again,

I do have a name for mine "MALINE".

As it has a well known French name,I have always assumed it was French,but who knows ?

WIN_20171212_10_03_03_Pro.jpg.7671c6b860b52a920eae2f943cdee40c.jpg

Ok, fair enough. Sorry I missed that with the stamp.

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2 hours ago, Delabo said:
1 hour ago, Delabo said:

Hi,

I have tried looking with a camera,but I cannot see  a pencil inscription.

But if yours has the same name,burnt or inked in the same manner as mine,then they are likely of the same circa date.

As far as I know,Chanot was not not a luthier himself,so maybe he commissioned others to make them on his behalf ?

 

I read that maybe Vuillaume worked for Chanot at the time he was maiking this kind of violines.

 

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1 hour ago, jandepora said:

I read that maybe Vuillaume worked for Chanot at the time he was maiking this kind of violines.

 

Yes he did,according to the  author of the book " American Luthier: The Art and Science of the Violin" by Quincy Whitney.

In that book on page 86 it says that  Francois Chanot was a naval engineer who in 1818 employed J.B Vuillaume to make his guitar shaped violins. Vuillame  stopped making these violins in 1823 for Chanot and set up in business on his own.

 

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