Sign in to follow this  
Jakub

Atypical construction violin

Recommended Posts

Hello, I have old violin with atypical construction. Inside is handwrite in german language, I can read only "Patent", "Dr. F. Thomastik", "Jakob Buchner", "Wien".
Can someone say about this violin? About Jakob Buchner? Or about relation with Dr. F. Thomastik (father of Thomastik-Infeld)? Can someone read whole text? Thank you

IMG_20171118_102450.jpg

IMG_20171118_102358.jpg

IMG_20171118_102513.jpg

IMG_20171113_204037.jpg

IMG_20171113_204016.jpg

IMG_20171113_203916.jpg

IMG_20171113_203910.jpg

IMG_20171113_204111.jpg

IMG_20171113_204115.jpg

IMG_20171113_203945.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that is bizarre! What does it sound like?

The neck adjustment must make the fingerboard almost parallel with the gluing surface of the ribs, and with the super high bottom nut, there must be very little downward pressure on the bridge. Do you think that is why the bridge is mounted on a stick(s)?

Thinking about it, that must be the sound post screwed onto the foot of the bridge? Is it fastened to the bass bar in the same way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Thinking about it, that must be the sound post screwed onto the foot of the bridge? Is it fastened to the bass bar in the same way?

It appears to have something other than a sound post. It looks like the treble bridge foot is sitting on a block where the sound post would be. I guess that the idea is that the vibrations are transferred to the top via the "sound block" because it does not appear that the foot of the bridge is in contact with the top at all (I am assuming that the block is in contact with the top).

soundpost.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While this thru-the-top post is unusual, it is not unheard of.  It generally tends to make a violin more like a viola, enhancing the low and mid frequencies while reducing brightness.  There was a thread about it here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Don Noon said:

While this thru-the-top post is unusual, it is not unheard of.  It generally tends to make a violin more like a viola, enhancing the low and mid frequencies while reducing brightness. 

This has more than just the thru bridge. The crazy neck and saddle make it look like some kind of prototype. Also, it does not appear to be a sound "post," and I can't tell if the base bridge foot is sitting on the top or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sound is like a viola ;-) on top is hole, right foot of bridge is sound post. And what we can see inside on back, that is something as bass bar (I can not say exactly, my english is bad) and sound post stands on this bar.

Edited by Jakub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dr. Franz Thomastik, an „Anthroposoph“, Born 1883 in Vienna, made all sorts of inventions, and wierd acustic publications. The Infeld Family took over his firm in the 50’s. The only inventions that had a longer life, are the steel strings, and the tailpiece with integeral fine tuners. The firm, in the 5th. District of Vienna, to this day, has no end of such junk in the basement, and asked me (with an unsurprising negative response) to repair it, some 25 years ago.

 

I am not Aware of Jakob Buchner, there is a large dinasty of „Bucher“ violin makers, although it should be noted that there were no end of makers in Vienna at this time, and one is surprised oftten enough. I wrote an Essay about these here: https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/329024-who-made-this-violin/&do=findComment&comment=596648

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And please, what about instrument? Age? Quality of work? Value? Because this violin is available for sale, but I have not informations about instrument. Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 18/11/2017 at 7:03 PM, jacobsaunders said:

Dr. Franz Thomastik, an „Anthroposoph“, Born 1883 in Vienna, made all sorts of inventions, and wierd acustic publications. The Infeld Family took over his firm in the 50’s. The only inventions that had a longer life, are the steel strings, and the tailpiece with integeral fine tuners. The firm, in the 5th. District of Vienna, to this day, has no end of such junk in the basement, and asked me (with an unsurprising negative response) to repair it, some 25 years ago.

 

I am not Aware of Jakob Buchner, there is a large dinasty of „Bucher“ violin makers, although it should be noted that there were no end of makers in Vienna at this time, and one is surprised oftten enough. I wrote an Essay about these here: https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/329024-who-made-this-violin/&do=findComment&comment=596648

I think they were called Weidler violins. Later Arthur Bay made such instruments in his workshop near Konstanz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Jakub said:

And please, what about instrument? Age? Quality of work? Value? Because this violin is available for sale, but I have not informations about instrument. Thank you

1. Junk

2. ca pre WW1

3. Normal bought parts from the Markneukichen industry

4. not worth anything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

4. not worth anything

Well, it might be worth something to a collector of weird violins. It may be rubbish, but it isn't your usual rubbish. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use the hole through the top method (from the medieval Welsh Crwth) too for my violas.   The treble bridge foot rests directly on a rather massive sound post.  This does three things: it reduces the strings' downward load on the top plate.  It also allows a larger area of the top
 plate to vibrate in phase with the treble bridge foot vibration.  This decreases sound wave cancellation which increases net output sound radiations.  Furthermore the large in phase plate area naturally decreases various resonance frequencies which makes the violas sound deeper.

I also use a very shallow string angle to reduce the strings' downward load on the top.  The strings are attached to an extension of the fingerboard rather than using a tail piece and a real high saddle.  This in turn eliminates the body bending and top plate compression loads from the string tension.

All of these stress reductions allows the use of a thin and almost flat top plate which decreases its stiffness.  This further reduces the frequency of many of its vibration modes while increasing their amplitudes which deepens the viola's sound even though they are quite small.

My goal is to make small easy to hold lightweight violas that sound like big ones for those who may have had playing induced injuries.  i get encouraging input from players but dealers think they're atypical junk.

IMG_2025.jpg

IMG_2039.jpg

IMG_2041.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I use the hole through the top method (from the medieval Welsh Crwth) too for my violas.   The treble bridge foot rests directly on a rather massive sound post.  This does three things: it reduces the strings' downward load on the top plate.  It also allows a larger area of the top
 plate to vibrate in phase with the treble bridge foot vibration.  This decreases sound wave cancellation which increases net output sound radiations.  Furthermore the large in phase plate area naturally decreases various resonance frequencies which makes the violas sound deeper.

I also use a very shallow string angle to reduce the strings' downward load on the top.  The strings are attached to an extension of the fingerboard rather than using a tail piece and a real high saddle.  This in turn eliminates the body bending and top plate compression loads from the string tension.

All of these stress reductions allows the use of a thin and almost flat top plate which decreases its stiffness.  This further reduces the frequency of many of its vibration modes while increasing their amplitudes which deepens the viola's sound even though they are quite small.

My goal is to make small easy to hold lightweight violas that sound like big ones for those who may have had playing induced injuries.  i get encouraging input from players but dealers think they're atypical junk.

 

IMG_2041.JPG

I would love to hear what this sounds like!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2017 at 3:56 PM, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I use the hole through the top method (from the medieval Welsh Crwth) too for my violas.   The treble bridge foot rests directly on a rather massive sound post.  This does three things: it reduces the strings' downward load on the top plate.  It also allows a larger area of the top
 plate to vibrate in phase with the treble bridge foot vibration.  This decreases sound wave cancellation which increases net output sound radiations.  Furthermore the large in phase plate area naturally decreases various resonance frequencies which makes the violas sound deeper.

I also use a very shallow string angle to reduce the strings' downward load on the top.  The strings are attached to an extension of the fingerboard rather than using a tail piece and a real high saddle.  This in turn eliminates the body bending and top plate compression loads from the string tension.

All of these stress reductions allows the use of a thin and almost flat top plate which decreases its stiffness.  This further reduces the frequency of many of its vibration modes while increasing their amplitudes which deepens the viola's sound even though they are quite small.

My goal is to make small easy to hold lightweight violas that sound like big ones for those who may have had playing induced injuries.  i get encouraging input from players but dealers think they're atypical junk.

IMG_2025.jpg

IMG_2039.jpg

IMG_2041.JPG

Marty, you definitely are a thinker, and very good at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2017 at 3:56 PM, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I use the hole through the top method (from the medieval Welsh Crwth) too for my violas.   The treble bridge foot rests directly on a rather massive sound post.  This does three things: it reduces the strings' downward load on the top plate.  It also allows a larger area of the top
 plate to vibrate in phase with the treble bridge foot vibration.  This decreases sound wave cancellation which increases net output sound radiations.  Furthermore the large in phase plate area naturally decreases various resonance frequencies which makes the violas sound deeper.

I also use a very shallow string angle to reduce the strings' downward load on the top.  The strings are attached to an extension of the fingerboard rather than using a tail piece and a real high saddle.  This in turn eliminates the body bending and top plate compression loads from the string tension.

All of these stress reductions allows the use of a thin and almost flat top plate which decreases its stiffness.  This further reduces the frequency of many of its vibration modes while increasing their amplitudes which deepens the viola's sound even though they are quite small.

My goal is to make small easy to hold lightweight violas that sound like big ones for those who may have had playing induced injuries.  i get encouraging input from players but dealers think they're atypical junk.

 

 

I feel that most of your highly innovative design is truly, spectacularly brilliant,  but the chinrest is definitely screwed.  :ph34r:

5a1fa42419e40_Martyschinrest.jpg.115c5a9c2b7538b2a6a9dbf97a30bc4f.jpg

Have you considered screwing a dovetail wedge through the top via the existing holes, and then sliding a slotted chinrest onto it, thereby hiding the attachment points?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool idea.  I just keep imagining the screw wells accumulating makeup and other crud, and having to be disassembled for cleaning.  Has that been a problem at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.