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    • john

      Read the rules at the top of this page before posting.   12/30/16

      The rules are copied here for your convenience: The Auction Scroll is for sharing opinions on instruments listed and offered for sale online on this site or any other. It is for the civil exchange of ideas and opinions about the instruments themselves. The opinions expressed are solely those of the poster, and do not represent the opinion of Maestronet or its forum moderators. Personal attacks on individuals will not be tolerated and will result in banning from participation in the forums. For example you are free to state that in your opinion a certain instrument labelled such and such is or is not authentic. You can also support your opinion with facts as you see them, as long as you make no reference to the individual or company listing the instrument or use hearsay in your argument. You cannot say for example that such and such an instrument is not authentic because you know the individual listing the instrument is not trustworthy or you believe the company routinely uses false descriptions of its instruments. That will get you banned. Similarly, you can defend the authenticity of an instrument with the facts as you see them, as long as personal attacks and hearsay are not used. For example, you could refer to the shape of the f holes in support of a certain origin, but what you cannot do is attack any individuals that may hold a different opinion. This is a unique forum, so please abide by these rules to ensure it continues in its current form.
GeorgeH

A 200 year old Cornerless Cello signed by Chanot

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Yup, I saw it today and almost posted the link myself!  Quite an interesting piece to show up right after the discussion of cornerless instruments on MN.  :)

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Look at this link the bass de viole is the same year, i wonder if it was converted to a cello. The cello on this page has a normal scroll.

http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/search.aspx?SC=MUSEE&QUERY=chanot#/Search/(query:(Page:0,PageRange:3,QueryString:chanot,ResultSize:10,ScenarioCode:MUSEE,SearchContext:0,SearchLabel:''))

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The difference to the instrument discussed before is in the homogenity of style; outline, soundholes and "head" of the pegbox are featuring straight forward the design of a particular period, not pretending to be something else. The cornerless Strad started life with a different outline and was altered to the actual shape later.

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On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:33 AM, Blank face said:

The difference to the instrument discussed before is in the homogenity of style; outline, soundholes and "head" of the pegbox are featuring straight forward the design of a particular period, not pretending to be something else. The cornerless Strad started life with a different outline and was altered to the actual shape later.

The cornerless Strad started life with a different outline? Sorry Blank face, which different outline?

Was altered to what actual shape?

Do you mean the Viola De Gamba? Or His Viol D' amour? He shaped celli as they are today. His patterns for bass are not corner less. I will add exactly his examples when I have time.

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8 hours ago, morgana said:

The cornerless Strad started life with a different outline? Sorry Blank face, which different outline?

Was altered to what actual shape?

Do you mean the Viola De Gamba? Or His Viol D' amour? He shaped celli as they are today. His patterns for bass are not corner less. I will add exactly his examples when I have time.

If you had read the linked thread I gave carefully, you might have noticed that Bruce Carlson (whom I'm rather trusting than other opinions) mentioned the original  paper form from the Stradivari archive of the instrument as a viola d'amore with sloping shoulders. Just take another look and you might find!

BTW, it's a disturbing attitude to call an 18th century maker "Tony", as if he was one of your pub mates.

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5 hours ago, Blank face said:

...

BTW, it's a disturbing attitude to call an 18th century maker "Tony", as if he was one of your pub mates.

I will take exception to that.  I also call him Tony as a fond moniker - and I don' t even go to pubs.  I would like to think that he had enough of a sense of humour to appreciate being thought of at all - 280 years after his death, with a respectable sense of fondness, no less...

Besides - we are using the term of endearment on MN, in what might even be considered a cyber-pub type setting.  In a formal setting, such as a public conference, museum, etc., then of course, the use of Tony might be considered inappropriate.

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42 minutes ago, Rue said:

I will take exception to that.  I also call him Tony as a fond moniker - and I don' t even go to pubs.  I would like to think that he had enough of a sense of humour to appreciate being thought of at all - 280 years after his death, with a respectable sense of fondness, no less...

Besides - we are using the term of endearment on MN, in what might even be considered a cyber-pub type setting.  In a formal setting, such as a public conference, museum, etc., then of course, the use of Tony might be considered inappropriate.

MN = cyber-pub. That's a good one. But I doubt that name Tony even exists 300 years ago, so Master Antonio would be rather confused despite his supposed sense of humour. :) 

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6 hours ago, Blank face said:

BTW, it's a disturbing attitude to call an 18th century maker "Tony", as if he was one of your pub mates.

Ummm............ I call him "Tony Strad" occasionally in irony, to point out that in his day, he was just another top-flight working luthier like several respected members here.  If he suddenly resurrected, and popped up on MN, I feel that he might be taken aback by his supposed demigod status among the Strad-worshippers.

54 minutes ago, Rue said:

[W]e are using the term of endearment on MN, in what might even be considered a cyber-pub type setting.  In a formal setting, such as a public conference, museum, etc., then of course, the use of Tony might be considered inappropriate.

I'll drink to that!  :lol:

31 minutes ago, romberg flat said:

MN = cyber-pub. That's a good one. But I doubt that name Tony even exists 300 years ago, so Master Antonio would be rather confused despite his supposed sense of humour. :) 

Yup, but he'd recognize " 'Tonio".  :)

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

I will take exception to that.  I also call him Tony as a fond moniker - and I don' t even go to pubs.

No, I won't expect you to use this name in common pub circumstances, so I never would mind you (or VdA) saying so. :P

BTW, it's removed, by the writer or admin, don't know.

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LOL!  Yay!  Cyber-beers for everyone!  Cyber-tab's on me! ;)

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Call me crazy (not Tony), but I just bought this. I'll post some photos when I get it home.

One thing did give me pause: there are some woodworm pinholes in the neck. I rationalized that the damage was clearly old, and the cello has been played actively in the last 20 years without breaking, so it's probably not a problem. But is there any way to get a more definitive diagnosis, short of x-rays?

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2 hours ago, Tom Fid said:

is there any way to get a more definitive diagnosis, short of x-rays?

strong light will help you to examine the worm damage 

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3 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Congrats! One of the bows looked interesting, too. How are they?

Fabulous Tom Fid, I'm sure this will not disappoint.   I was intrigued by the bow with the metal face plate, would love to know what that one turns out to be.  

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Thanks, Rossini. My hotel room's a little short on light, but there will be plenty when I get home.

One of the bows - round stick - looks like a fairly modest student tool. I think it might even be painted. The other, octagonal, is interesting. It's branded SIVORI (with the trailing I barely legible) and feels quite heavy. Not a familiar name to me, but it felt good. However, I'll have to defer to my son's judgment because I only play the cello on TV.

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A couple of snapshots of the SIVORI bow follow. I was wrong about the weight - 77g, and my son found it fairly soft (not stiff).

 

PC010193.jpg

PC010195.jpg

PC010197.jpg

PC010199.jpg

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And the cello ... More when I've recovered from the 4am wakeup for the flight. Mercifully everything went well with the cello in a seat on United.

PC010173.jpg

PC010180.jpg

PC010184.jpg

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The back is some piece of wood!  How does it play?  BTW  I usually refer to the man as "Big Tony"  I guess too many gangster movies during my misspent youth :-)

 

 

DLB

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Maybe we'll call M. Chanot "Big Frankie" then. :)

My son's report on a first trial was "that is a seriously awesome cello," which is more than I'd hoped for, especially since the setup isn't all that great. The strings are old and the soundpost looks like a bit of a hack job.

We were surprised by the strong bass, given that the body is on the small side.

Point of comparison is another antique, possibly German 1890s, that has a very good professional setup and sounds terrific against anything modern under $10k we've tried. It bears a  George Chanot (Manchester) label that I'm pretty sure is not authentic, which is fairly ironic since I understand that the Chanots advanced the art of uplabeling quite a bit.

I'll see if I can con my son into a recording.

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