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      Read the rules at the top of this page before posting.   12/30/16

      The rules are copied here for your convenience: The Auction Scroll is for sharing opinions on instruments listed and offered for sale online on this site or any other. It is for the civil exchange of ideas and opinions about the instruments themselves. The opinions expressed are solely those of the poster, and do not represent the opinion of Maestronet or its forum moderators. Personal attacks on individuals will not be tolerated and will result in banning from participation in the forums. For example you are free to state that in your opinion a certain instrument labelled such and such is or is not authentic. You can also support your opinion with facts as you see them, as long as you make no reference to the individual or company listing the instrument or use hearsay in your argument. You cannot say for example that such and such an instrument is not authentic because you know the individual listing the instrument is not trustworthy or you believe the company routinely uses false descriptions of its instruments. That will get you banned. Similarly, you can defend the authenticity of an instrument with the facts as you see them, as long as personal attacks and hearsay are not used. For example, you could refer to the shape of the f holes in support of a certain origin, but what you cannot do is attack any individuals that may hold a different opinion. This is a unique forum, so please abide by these rules to ensure it continues in its current form.
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fiddlecollector

Anyone else think the art world has gone mad

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7 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Ok, you could buy actually three good football players for this sum - possibly only two soon.;)

Or 3 or 4 good Strads.

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11 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Or 3 or 4 good Strads.

Maybe you missed a Zero?;)

Strads are bargains. Buy as long as they are.

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19 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Maybe you missed a Zero?;)

Strads are bargains. Buy as long as they are.

Yes! :D I was off by an order or magnitude! By 30 or 40 good Strads!

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The art world hasn't gone mad.  The spending habits of the grossly rich are in question...

I don't think anyone needs to feel obligated to donate all their extra income to charities or social programs...but still...

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

The art world hasn't gone mad.  The spending habits of the grossly rich are in question...

I don't think anyone needs to feel obligated to donate all their extra income to charities or social programs...but still...

"This is the last Leonardo painting you can buy. This isn't as a store of value, it's the ultimate trophy - only one person in the world can own this."

Maybe it will turn up hanging on a wall in the White House? :lol:
 

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45 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Maybe it will turn up hanging on a wall in the White House? :lol:

More likely that a copy will show up, masquerading as the real thing.

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Ah!  The Jesus Monkey!  

It's still great that it garnered as much interest as it did...otherwise interest in art restoration would just have continued to fade away with indifference...

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9 minutes ago, palousian said:

More likely that a copy will show up, masquerading as the real thing.

frescodisaster.png.021fc699af95d3a9a0dcedb300025008.png

Ah, you mean there's actually the copy of a president?

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Sort of the equivalent to the MacDonald Strad viola, being the only one available on the open market.

 

A violinist friend of mine has long held that if art is priced appropriately, then Cremonese instruments are a screaming deal.

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57 minutes ago, duane88 said:

Sort of the equivalent to the MacDonald Strad viola, being the only one available on the open market.

 

A violinist friend of mine has long held that if art is priced appropriately, then Cremonese instruments are a screaming deal.

Neither market is rational, but at least the Cremonese instruments are good for something besides hiding cracks in your plaster. :lol:

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8 minutes ago, AtlVcl said:

 Five words:

Supply & demand.

Supply, demand, vanity, and gullibility. :lol:

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17 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Supply, demand, vanity, and gullibility

Vanity for sure, but being gullible is not a trait that allows you to amass this kind of money.

 

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18 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Neither market is rational, but at least the Cremonese instruments are good for something besides hiding cracks in your plaster. :lol:

I think you nailed it.B)

Like the editor wrote in his comment, the art of the auctioneers was to put it into the post war sale, not in the old masters, "Because that's not where the elephant bucks are."

Violins, either old or new, are "old master's art", and maybe it raised the attraction that it's authenticity was disputed.

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2 hours ago, deans said:

Vanity for sure, but being gullible is not a trait that allows you to amass this kind of money.

 

Being that centered on making money suggests buying into a certain "bill of goods", and spending it on vain display clinches the diagnosis. :rolleyes:

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If I had a spare billion this is not the Leonardo that would attract my interest.  I'd go for the one in the (US) National Gallery of Art.  Perhaps they will someday decide to deaccession it shortly after I win the Power Ball?  But then I'd have to start playing the Power Ball (unfortunately, I'm not gullible enough to).

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Apparently the only link to Leonardo is that part of the undersketching shows his hand ,along with several other artist hands from a studio he was working in. Not exactly conclusive .

There was a art expert guy talking about it today on the radio and he was very sceptical , he criticised the model of anatomy  amongst other things.

I think the auction houses play a large part in all the hype, as they are getting a tidy chunk of the selling price .

I would also like to know if this piece didnt have any provenance before the 20th century then how do they know `Charles I` owned it at one time?

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I was extremely lucky to have extended me-time with the painting some years ago through circumstances that will remain ever so slightly mysterious at the time of the Leonardo exhibition in London at a time when it was kind of 80% likely to be Leonardo - and then to go to Milan the following week and spend a lot of time in the Pinoteca Brera - if you really want to understand Leonardo, the work of Bernardino Luini, Andrea Solario and the other "assistants" is so important, because I think they were the people who actually turned Leonardo's concepts of painting into reality for the most part. I refuse to separate his studio from the painter himself in the way art historians have tried to teach us (Slim though the chance may be, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Brera reassessing a few attributions as we learn more, and a few more Leonardos turning up - remember that the London Madonna on the Rocks was supposed to be mostly Luini and Solario until less than 10 years ago!). The impression I had back in 2011 was that the painting was anything but beautiful, and although I'm lost for a good word for the emotions it struck, that I suppose is what made it particularly powerful, uncomfortable, and probably rather true to what it would be to encounter Christ in the flesh. I've not seen an image of Christ that is so compelling in that way, and whilst I rave about Luini and Solario, the best of the bunch is Solario's Ecce Homo which was  much copied type, and even the best of those don't reach that level - so whilst it's an odd painting (what's left of it) the balance of probability to my mind lies in it being Leonardo. That's not what I thought the first time, but after seeing the comparables in Milan, it changed my view considerably.

It's a shame not to have seen it again (the queue was too long in London), but the pictures indicate a fairly heavy restoration. It's much more 'beautiful' now, and a lot of the starkness has gone, though that may just be a new varnish layer and some clever photography to give it that rich, deep look. Still, I won't be hanging a poster of it on my wall, the haunting look would be sure to make me feel guilty and always be looking behind my shoulder. Eeek. 

At the end of the day, it was always going to go for whatever a picture is worth. Back in 2011 people were talking about $100million at a time when one or two Picassos and Warhols had gone for that money, which simply substantiated - "whatever a picture is worth". A Gaugin sold around $300m quite recently, so obviously things have changed .. so I suppose the price is predictable to an extent, though Christie's nevertheless made an emphasis that the estimate was starting at a guaranteed $100m, the highest guarantee they have ever made (but still a loss against the $126m that the last owner paid for it), so the market had to find itself. 

What delights me, is that the MacDonald is now back down to being a tenth of the price of great art if anyone should pay for it, proving once again that the violin market DOES NOT follow the art market, a detachment that is all the better for the future of violins being played by musicians. 

 

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2 hours ago, Greg F. said:

If I had a spare billion............

............I'd use it to leverage a mining startup.  Wonder what a seabag full of chunked asteroid would go for at Christies?  :)

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19 minutes ago, Rue said:

...who was it that decided Jesus should be blonde again?  

St. Clairol? :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, Greg F. said:

If I had a spare billion this is not the Leonardo that would attract my interest.  I'd go for the one in the (US) National Gallery of Art.

Yes, indeed.  That one is spectacular.  This one -- well, maybe I just don't understand art.  Maybe it's not what it once was.

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