Johann Strad 1745 Antique Violin Repaired by Joseph Winner 1856

[SCM3216]

I believe this violin was made by Johann Strad circa 1745 from what I can make from the label.  However, I have not been able to find anything regarding Johann Strad.  It was repaired by Joseph Winner in 1856. I found that Joseph Winner Sr. was a violin maker and also made repairs in Philadelphia, PA during the early to mid 1800's. The violin has a unique dove tail on the back.  Any information of the age/maker would be very helpful and greatly appreciated. 

[Blank face]

The name is rather Strack, not Strad, from Brag, means Prague, which both it most probably isn't, but a 19th century Vogtland made violin with a reproduced (copied) label from the same period.

Can't actually find this name either, it's possibly a product of fantasy only.

The button repair is what's in another recent thread regarded as a "brick".

[JacksonMaberry]

That's such a big brick it might have come off the Pyramids!

 

Also, looks like whoever was running the pantograph the day that rolled off the line forgot the switch the back pattern in after the machine finished the belly.

Edited November 15, 2017 by JacksonMaberry
Edited for clarity.

[Rue]

I was surprised to see "violinmacher" on the label. Was that the usual?

[MarkBouquet]

More likely the neck was broken off and took the original button with it. That was someone's attempt at a repair, perhaps Mr. Winner?

[JacksonMaberry]

If you're responding to my post, I hadn't meant to connect those thoughts and have edited it for clarity.

[Addie]

I find the Jos. Winner handwriting quite convincing.  No way of telling if the brick is his, unless he signed it.

[AtlVcl]

Ne'er-do-well uncle

[Ratcliffiddles]

It looks like some sort of Bohemian violin maybe just before 1800.  Does it have a neck?  a picture of the head profile would be nice.

[Blank face]

I'm supposing, too, that it was made before the invention of the milling machine.

Reg. the brick, I'm afraid, that this sort of repair is very often caused by the failed attempt to remove a through neck, breaking out the the button as well as some wood beneath it.

[Michael Appleman]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

I'm supposing, too, that it was made before the invention of the milling machine.

Reg. the brick, I'm afraid, that this sort of repair is very often caused by the failed attempt to remove a through neck, breaking out the the button as well as some wood beneath it.

Or just an accident that broke out the neck along with the button and supporting platform. One mustn"t imagine bad amateur repairers are lurking everywhere behind every brick. We live in an amazing era of "invisible" retoration techniques. Not that long ago, a brick would just ellicit a "shrug" if the rest of the fiddle was intact. I've seen some retorer friends take a worm-eaten pulverized back and make it look absolutely perfect to the naked eye. I'd almost prefer to buy a fiddle with a visible brick and nothing else than a visually perfect fiddle that has had 80% of its original wood and varnish replaced.

[SCM3216]

Thank you for all the information.

Ratcliffiddles- here are some pictures of the head profile. 

 

[SCM3216]

I also uploaded a picture of what appears to be a neck repair, Amy info on this would be much appreciated. 

[deans]

Michael has some good points These bricks are obvious, ugly, and easy targets to make fun of. But it seems to have been a common repair (not restoration)  that didn't really affect the playing properties too much.

[Blank face]

9 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

 I'd almost prefer to buy a fiddle with a visible brick and nothing else than a visually perfect fiddle that has had 80% of its original wood and varnish replaced.

That's well said - but I'm guessing that most of violin buyers want a visually perfect fiddle rather than a battered looking with 80% original substance, otherwise the demand (and prices) for the first kind won't be so high.

OTOH, a "brick" made of well matching wood, adjusted and touched up fine ain't the same as one from accidentally chosen and roughly inserted pieces, and unfortunately we very often find the last.

[Schwartzinc]

So with this 'case study' what is your opinions on this violin moving forward? Worth reviving?

[duane88]

nope.

[Fossil Ledges]

On 11/15/2017 at 11:41 AM, deans said:

Michael has some good points These bricks are obvious, ugly, and easy targets to make fun of. But it seems to have been a common repair (not restoration)  that didn't really affect the playing properties too much.

Michael does make a good point, repairs used to be just repairs. And all of those German and French boxes were being played by someone, because a lot more folks were playing fiddle, especially in Europe.     ...and I like old repairs and trying to do the backward sleuthing on them.

[Fossil Ledges]

4 hours ago, Schwartzinc said:

So with this 'case study' what is your opinions on this violin moving forward? Worth reviving?

Sure, why not, see what it sounds like.

[Schwartzinc]

From the looks...did this instrument ever have purfling? 

[Fossil Ledges]

IMHO no, as one of the previous posters stated regarding the pantograph, this is most likely shop work and this was definitely a working class instrument. Still interesting though, and it has seen some history. If you like it, play it and enjoy it.

[Andreas Preuss]

On November 15, 29 Heisei at 9:11 AM, Rue said:

I was surprised to see "violinmacher" on the label. Was that the usual?

Rather unusual. On most German labels before 1800 you find 'Lautten- und Geigenmacher'. 

God knows where the label comes from.

Another unusual thing is 'aus Brag' instead of 'in Brag', which basically means that Mr. Starck wasn't working in Prag. 

 

[Schwartzinc]

How would the 'in Brag' be written? Has nobody seen a label from this period and from Prague with the annotation, 'aus Brag?'