bkwood Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 I should have mastered this by now. I am ready to remove the garland from around the mold on my 6th violin (which is going to be a five string). Each time before I have ended up cutting it out, or using a collapsible form I made. I made a new mold for this violin, telling myself I wouldn't be timid about getting it off this time. And yet, I can't seem to do it. The ends don't want to clear the linings. Is there a trick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Coleman Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Did you glue both sets of linings on? Usually people only glue one set of linings if they are not using a collapsible form. I have heard of people gluing both sets on a non collapsible and then just flexing the rib garland around to remove the form. In the case of the one set of linings/non collapsible form scenario, the back is already glued on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjankowski Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Mr. Sora has a good video on how to do this. Its the way I do it. Both sets of linings glued in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Allen Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 I simply flex mine untill it yields me my form. It's pretty nerve wracking, buy think of it this way, the wood should give well before before any glue joints do while flexing it around. Don't be afraid to muscle it just a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Release the blocks, flex with sensitivity and just ease it out. Keep your nerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Allen Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 I have success almost rotating it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Allen Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 OP, are your blocks partially trimmed at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Jones Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Gotta get the corners out beyond the shoulders first, then the end blocks will move north and south to clear the linings. Helps to do a bit of rough removal of stock inside the corner blocks as well, but not actually needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkwood Posted November 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, Nick Allen said: OP, are your blocks partially trimmed at this point? Thanks everybody. I do have linings on both sides. I've always done that because it seems to me it sets the shape better that way. I haven't trimmed my blocks any yet. That's a good idea. And keep my nerve. Back to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 40 minutes ago, Nick Allen said: I simply flex mine untill it yields me my form. It's pretty nerve wracking, buy think of it this way, the wood should give well before before any glue joints do while flexing it around. Don't be afraid to muscle it just a bit. That's what worries me, the wood (not the glue) giving way in a manner that I won't be happy with. I really don't want to send new instruments out the door which already have repairs to breaks in the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkwood Posted November 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Success! Thanks again. And the David Sora video was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, bkwood said: Thanks everybody. I do have linings on both sides. I've always done that because it seems to me it sets the shape better that way. It probably does, but the top Cremonese makers didn't seem to be overly concerned about that. Looks like they were fine tracing the top and back outlines from distorted rib assemblies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 I'm glad to hear that, since mine are going to be distorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonMaberry Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 A very slight chamfer all around the form edges seems to help when the time comes to wiggle the garland free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Sora Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 The only trick is to split the inside wood of corner blocks, widen the ribs just enough to clear the edges of the form at the housing of corner blocks , so that they can move upward and allow the linings near the top block to clear the form. They are only two-millimeter enlargements, just the thickness of the linings, not a big deal at all. Of course unless your ribs have accidentally glued to the form, in which case the next time it will be better to remember to put soap or paraffin on the form to avoid it. It must always be done!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 12 hours ago, bkwood said: Success! Thanks again. And the David Sora video was good. Well done, it wsn't that bad was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 17 hours ago, Davide Sora said: The only trick is to split the inside wood of corner blocks, widen the ribs just enough to clear the edges of the form at the housing of corner blocks , so that they can move upward and allow the linings near the top block to clear the form. They are only two-millimeter enlargements, just the thickness of the linings, not a big deal at all. Of course unless your ribs have accidentally glued to the form, in which case the next time it will be better to remember to put soap or paraffin on the form to avoid it. It must always be done!!! Davide, do you trim the inner edges of the linings before or after you remove from the form? I'm working on my first build, your videos are very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 Splitting the corner blocks like Davide mentioned and trimming the inner edges of the linings helps a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkwood Posted November 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 8 hours ago, Muswell said: Well done, it wsn't that bad was it? Piece of cake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Sora Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 8 hours ago, MikeC said: Davide, do you trim the inner edges of the linings before or after you remove from the form? I'm working on my first build, your videos are very helpful. I trim the inner edges of the linings near the top block on top side only and near the bottom block on back side only, to facilitate the extraction of the form. This way, once the ribs are free from the form, I can scrape away the dry glue residues close to the linings more easily without damaging their edges, and I can trim all the rest of linings with better visibility of the work. However, judging by marks left on the original forms, it is quite likely that Stradivari would do it with ribs still on the form, or more likely some apprentices did the job for him, just to keep them busy in downtimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnmasters Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 On 11/13/2017 at 10:32 AM, bkwood said: I should have mastered this by now. I am ready to remove the garland from around the mold on my 6th violin (which is going to be a five string). Each time before I have ended up cutting it out, or using a collapsible form I made. I made a new mold for this violin, telling myself I wouldn't be timid about getting it off this time. And yet, I can't seem to do it. The ends don't want to clear the linings. Is there a trick? I use a full-thickness mould, and yes, I found a trick for myself. When the blocks are glued in, cut from the outline partially into the block (band saw). When it is time to remove the assembly, drill a 3/8 hole into each corner block and at the corners of the end blocks. Then use a saber saw to cut from this hole to the mould. You can leave just a few mm of the block, and then you will be able to spring the thing out at each corner. After corners are released, you have plenty of slack to get the end blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkwood Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Johnmasters said: I use a full-thickness mould, and yes, I found a trick for myself. When the blocks are glued in, cut from the outline partially into the block (band saw). When it is time to remove the assembly, drill a 3/8 hole into each corner block and at the corners of the end blocks. Then use a saber saw to cut from this hole to the mould. You can leave just a few mm of the block, and then you will be able to spring the thing out at each corner. After corners are released, you have plenty of slack to get the end blocks. By full thickness do you mean as thick as the ribs are wide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not telling Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Glue a square of butcher paper or grocery bag to your blocks. Remove the mold with a bit of hot water if you have trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnmasters Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 Yes, just glue up a plug from plywood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkwood Posted November 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 21 hours ago, Johnmasters said: Yes, just glue up a plug from plywood I've thought of making a mold like that. But how do you keep the shape of the garland when gluing in linings after removing it from the mold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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