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      Read the rules at the top of this page before posting.   12/30/16

      The rules are copied here for your convenience: The Auction Scroll is for sharing opinions on instruments listed and offered for sale online on this site or any other. It is for the civil exchange of ideas and opinions about the instruments themselves. The opinions expressed are solely those of the poster, and do not represent the opinion of Maestronet or its forum moderators. Personal attacks on individuals will not be tolerated and will result in banning from participation in the forums. For example you are free to state that in your opinion a certain instrument labelled such and such is or is not authentic. You can also support your opinion with facts as you see them, as long as you make no reference to the individual or company listing the instrument or use hearsay in your argument. You cannot say for example that such and such an instrument is not authentic because you know the individual listing the instrument is not trustworthy or you believe the company routinely uses false descriptions of its instruments. That will get you banned. Similarly, you can defend the authenticity of an instrument with the facts as you see them, as long as personal attacks and hearsay are not used. For example, you could refer to the shape of the f holes in support of a certain origin, but what you cannot do is attack any individuals that may hold a different opinion. This is a unique forum, so please abide by these rules to ensure it continues in its current form.
Przemek

Violin type Nicolo Gusetto

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Hello,

I have the opportunity to purchase a violin modeled on violin by Nicolo Gusetto.
Maybe someone knows something about these violins, what is their value.

Thanks for the help and any tips.

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These regularly sell on Ebay for around 2 to 300 bucks. The ugly crack would bring the value down to about 100, and only because somebody might want the head.

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On 11/11/2017 at 7:47 PM, Przemek said:

Hello,

I have the opportunity to purchase a violin modeled on violin by Nicolo Gusetto.

The opportunity to buy a wreck is not really an opportunity.

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1 hour ago, Herman West said:

The opportunity to buy a wreck is not really an opportunity.

There is a subtle difference between „a wreck“ and junk

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51 minutes ago, Jeff Jetson said:

Is rubbish sandwiched someplace  in between wreck and junk?

Any violin can be a wreck. A violin that is not a wreck can still be junk. A violin that is "rubbish" may or may not be junk, however, a violin that is rubbish and a wreck is definitely junk.

This screams for a Ven Diagram.

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Rubbish is what ends up in Jacob's "dust bin". I don't think this one would even make it that far.

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Just now, violinsRus said:

Would look nice as a wall hanger and conversation starter, wouldn't it?  Even if of no commercial value as an instrument.

Sure, I have one, its in better condition, just missing a piece of the binding. But after a couple decades I still haven't gotten around to setting it up.......

Lots of people like stuff like this just as oddities and conversation pieces, that's why they always seem to get at least some money (not zero).

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I try to understand this discussion and I do not understand. Violins are in very good condition. The top plate repaired by luthier (probably even before World War II). No rigid cracks. Do you think these violins are dumb and do not work?

Edited by Przemek

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2 hours ago, Przemek said:

I try to understand this discussion and I do not understand. Violins are in very good condition. The top plate repaired by luthier (probably even before World War II). No rigid cracks. Do you think these violins are dumb and do not work?

There is very little demand in the marketplace for violins like this, and therefore they are not very expensive, even in good condition. The one you have shown has a severe sound post crack on the top, which reduces its value by 30-50% (or more), even though it has been repaired. 

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3 hours ago, Przemek said:

I try to understand this discussion and I do not understand. Violins are in very good condition. The top plate repaired by luthier (probably even before World War II). No rigid cracks. Do you think these violins are dumb and do not work?

I can give another example Przemek. I have been offered what is probably an American church bass in good condition, for a low price.   Basically a cello, but with some non-standard dimensions that would make it difficult to adjust to.  After checking around it appears that there is very little market for such an instrument, even though it is in all likelihood over 150 years old and not too bad condition.  Will I purchase it?  Probably, but only as a wall hanger and conversation piece, and because I like a bit of history around the shop for variety.  Not because I'm counting on its resale value.  

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10 hours ago, Przemek said:

I try to understand this discussion and I do not understand. Violins are in very good condition. The top plate repaired by luthier (probably even before World War II). No rigid cracks. Do you think these violins are dumb and do not work?

The violin is not in a very good condition. There is a bad "rigid" crack at the right bridge foot, a soundpost crack, which ain't never repaired by a luthier, but by an amateur butcher.

To say it clearly: This artefact pretending to be a violin is really dumb, won't work as such and it's value is based on bad taste only.

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11 hours ago, violinsRus said:

I can give another example Przemek. I have been offered what is probably an American church bass in good condition, for a low price.   Basically a cello, but with some non-standard dimensions that would make it difficult to adjust to.  After checking around it appears that there is very little market for such an instrument, even though it is in all likelihood over 150 years old and not too bad condition.  Will I purchase it?  Probably, but only as a wall hanger and conversation piece, and because I like a bit of history around the shop for variety.  Not because I'm counting on its resale value.  

I understand it and I know it. I realize that tp is not a concert violin and no concert musician will buy them (even if it is for "unusual" shape).

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4 hours ago, Blank face said:

The violin is not in a very good condition. There is a bad "rigid" crack at the right bridge foot, a soundpost crack, which ain't never repaired by a luthier, but by an amateur butcher.

To say it clearly: This artefact pretending to be a violin is really dumb, won't work as such and it's value is based on bad taste only.

Do not know if you've noticed that they also have no strings? You do not have a soul on this photo.The bridge is an operational item that is exchanged (for the one that fits us or inserts a liar). The condition of the bridge does not indicate the condition of the instrument.

On the attached picture you have the same violin after luthier review and after use by music :)

WP_20171114_13_57_40_Pro.jpg

Edited by Przemek

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18 hours ago, GeorgeH said:
18 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

 a severe sound post crack on the top, which reduces its value by 30-50% (or more), even though it has been repaired. 

 

Incorrect. A post crack in the top of something like this renders it financially an upside-down proposal, but a post crack in the top does not depreciate a violin 30-50 percent. 

In my last conversations with my shop insurance company 0-30%, and if one knows what they are doing, a post crack in the top can disappear. You should tell the buyer that it is there even if they can not see it.

This violin belongs on the wall as a conversation piece, although fiddle players love them and would probably love it post crack and all.

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48 minutes ago, palousian said:

That's a lot of rosin you left on there.  I am always mystified that people use that much and then leave such a dusting on their violins.

I did not leave just about the photo I asked. Much of the play is a lot of rosin (Bernandel Rosin). The instrument just played and is pre-cleaning.

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20 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

There is very little demand in the marketplace for violins like this, and therefore they are not very expensive, even in good condition. The one you have shown has a severe sound post crack on the top, which reduces its value by 30-50% (or more), even though it has been repaired. 

Slightly off the subject of this particular violin... but depreciation of a well repaired sound post crack in the top is usually about 20%.  This % may be slightly higher if it's a nasty compound crack, or other situations that warrant further depreciation.  If there are other pre-existing restorations (the instrument isn't pristine) and the instrument is older, it may be a lesser % that is applied.

In my experience, market appeal for a new instrument with such a restoration is different than market appeal for an older instrument with such a restoration, however.

None of the above means that all instruments that get a post crack in the top are worthy of a sound post restoration, or receive one that is well done.

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11 hours ago, Przemek said:

Do not know if you've noticed that they also have no strings? You do not have a soul on this photo.The bridge is an operational item that is exchanged (for the one that fits us or inserts a liar). The condition of the bridge does not indicate the condition of the instrument.

On the attached picture you have the same violin after luthier review and after use by music :)

WP_20171114_13_57_40_Pro.jpg

 

Maybe I was a bit harsh, but I see that you have invested now into the instrument - I wasn't talking about bridge or strings, but the crack under the bridge, very dirty and roughly glued. The soundpost crack now is still visible, but cleaned and I hope better fixed (patched),so that there won't be future problems with it.

Reg. taste, this type of instrument was mass produced, like Jacob wrote above, around 1900 in the Markneukirchen/Schönbach area as a product of historism, vaguely based on these cornerless fretted viol and Baryton heads, as one can see at the pictures below (Simon Schödler of Passau 1785, Maria di Brescia 16th century). The right carved head is a copy of a quite better quality and workmanship. I don't know if the flamed style soundholes, which are usually seen at later period's viola d'amores, were ever combined with such a shape in the period of origin, but probably not.

The cottage industry just took the shape  of a Renaissance or early baroque Da Gamba instrument, the head of a Rokkoko Baryton and transformed it into a violin size and set up, what it never was meant to be, and added the edge mosaic and back mop decoration to sell it as a fantasy "historic" fiddle, composed of elements from different periods.

 

Schödler Passau 1785.JPG

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