GlennYorkPA Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Borisravel said: The problem comes from the difference of sensivity to humidty between european and and exotics woods. If the peg is made from european wood, it will expand and contract like the pegbox's maple. No, no problem with gut, only solutions ! For baroque music, simplicity and lightness are the keys. Now I'm confused. In your previous post you advocated the use of exotic wood for pegs such as ebony and rosewood. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 If you're thinking about this: " The problem with pegs is not material itself, the problem comes from the fact that modern pegs should absolutely made of ebony or rosewood instead of boxwood or fruit trees. " I wanted to say that for violin standard, pegs should be made from ebony or rosewood. But first, ebony pegs come later and second, it's an ecological disaster, like solid ebony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 Early violin makers didn't have "lightness as a goal". Yes their violins had lighter setups than modern violins, but they didn't know modern setups. They were just making violins that worked for their purposes, with the right qualities, maybe they were paying attention to mass, maybe balance--just as some modern makers do. Maple fingerboards suited the goals of early violin makers until overspun strings became common. Yes the veneered softwood core board seems to have been common, but there were some veneered maple boards (i.e. Stradivari 1690 and 1721) and later there were even some solid ebony wedges. As to 'lightness' and the technical challenges of baroque technique, it's worth keeping in mind that the widespread use of chin rests lagged far behind the modernization of the violin, i.e. well into the 2nd half the 19th c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeyerFittings Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 quite a few paintings show "brown boards" not maple. could be plum, could be pear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Hi ! Do you have idea of what a baroque endpin could have been ? I'm looking for historical accessories but it's not easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeyerFittings Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Kind of like the one in the firsr photo in the post, with a scoop after the first ridge comeing up to a crater in the center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Thank you Mr Meyer. Do you have a picture ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennYorkPA Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 4:05 PM, Borisravel said: I'm looking for historical accessories but it's not easy to find. So True. I've been scouring the internet for weeks for an 18thC violin tailpiece and the closest was an ivory one on ebay which was take down for CITES reasons, I guess. I'm looking for an ebony or black stained one.. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 I've made mines, I think it's the easy way to have it... Please, don't use solid ebony, it' too heavy. Here is my last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennYorkPA Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Borisravel said: I've made mines, I think it's the easy way to have it... Please, don't use solid ebony, it' too heavy. Thanks for the advice about the ebony. That's why I thought stained fruitwood might be acoustically better and more authentic. Making one isn't a problem but it would be more satisfying to have one which is truly contemporary with the instrument. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 It's like bows, it's rather impossible. It's more important to have the original neck and fingerboard than tailpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 On 2/10/2019 at 11:59 AM, Borisravel said: The problem comes from the difference of sensivity to humidty between european and and exotics woods. If the peg is made from european wood, it will expand and contract like the pegbox's maple. Uh oh! What do you have to offer in support of that notion? If you are either a highly-versed wood tech, or some kind of semi-famous fiddle maker, I might be willing to put my reservations aside for a little while, pending more information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, David Burgess said: Uh oh! What do you have to offer in support of that notion? If you are either a highly-versed wood tech, or some kind of semi-famous fiddle maker, I might be willing to put my reservations aside for a little while, pending more information. I'm just a lute player and tuning 2x13 strings each hour on 2 différents lutes taught me that Fruitwoods pegs are easier to tune in some places with a great variation of humidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 35 minutes ago, Borisravel said: I'm just a lute player and tuning 2x13 strings each hour on 2 différents lutes taught me that Fruitwoods pegs are easier to tune in some places with a great variation of humidity. What is your sample size? One instrument, ten, or hundreds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Depending if you count only medieval, renaissance, pré-baroque, baroque lutes, theorbo and archlute, or early guitars too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Oh goodie! I love when folks play 20 questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennYorkPA Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, David Burgess said: Uh oh! What do you have to offer in support of that notion? If you are either a highly-versed wood tech, or some kind of semi-famous fiddle maker, I might be willing to put my reservations aside for a little while, pending more information. Is your reservation based on evidence or instinct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Could this endpin be a correct shape if I remove the black pin ? I've a metal lathe and I could replace it with a prunus insert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 The only issue is the thickness of the gut vs. the channel, if the gut is too thick, you can file the channel according to your most comfortable and effective method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 14 hours ago, GlennYorkPA said: Is your reservation based on evidence or instinct? It is based on charts like this. (Sorry, I can't find my much more detailed chart right now, with more wood species) Chapter 3, page 10 in this book from the United States Department of Agriculture lists more species. https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 In any event, ebony is not the worst material. I've an old hurdy gurdy whose pegs are made of bone and it's really insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, David Burgess said: Chapter 3, page 10 in this book from the United States Department of Agriculture lists more species. https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.pdf But your document is for constent moisture, it's not the same thing for pegs, which can suffer from high moisture difference and it's exactly the problem between african woods and softer woods like fruitwoods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, Borisravel said: But your document is for constent moisture, it's not the same thing for pegs, which can suffer from high moisture difference and it's exactly the problem between african woods and softer woods like fruitwoods. Sorry, I'm failing to understand what you're getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 European and exotics woods don't react at the same speed to moisture change, that's just the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felefar Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 Even European woods have wildly different reaction to humidity. Most of them also have hugely different reaction along grain vs. cross grain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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