Joe Robson's Balsam Ground 3

[jowl]

This picture shows Joe's balsam ground preparation 3 after 3:1 dilution with turpentine. After a while the balsam seems to precipitate out. Has anyone encountered this problem? 

[Michael_Molnar]

I never diluted it. Why are you?

[Mike Spencer]

I see instruction on Joe's website that does call for dilution of #3 and #4. I've done it both ways and not had problems. Maybe your turps are not good? Are you using the Diamond brand that Joe suggests?

 

[jowl]

Thanks guys. I can't get Diamond brand in the UK. I use what is labelled as "genuine turpentine" here from a wood finishing supplier. 

If you let me know what is special with Diamond turps I can try and get a substitute here.

[Mike Spencer]

Take a look and see if any of this is helpful.

 

[jowl]

That's really useful Mike. Thank you.

[fiddlecollector]

You can buy diamond g brand turpentine in the uk from fancy health shops at the nice attractive price of £10 GBP for 1 fluid oz or almost 30ml.

[joerobson]

Looks like bad turps to me.  If you cannot get Diamond G you can CAREFULLY warm the material to increase penetration.

Diamond G ships to Europe and Canada....I don't make anything on recommending them!

If you continue to have problems i will replace the material, though I have never ween this issue in the past, so I hope it works out...

Joe

[Pebbles]

Amazon UK has the Turpentine 1oz £8.25

[jowl]

Thanks everyone. I bought the "genuine turpentine" in 2014 when I could not find a supplier here but obviously I can buy it here now. Have made an order. 

 

[jowl]

Here's what the fiddle looks like after two coats of the BG3 with bad turps

[Nick Allen]

Hmm. Just looks like a clearish ground. 

[Guest]

It does look very pale and I doubt you will get any more color into the wood now that it is sealed with BG3.

Here is one coat of cape aloe on unsealed white wood left in the sun for two weeks to fade and then two coats of water thin clear copal varnish applied to seal the color.

[jowl]

Very nice! 

However I don't believe the wood is sealed until the application of balsam ground varnish (for the uninitiated Joe's ground system consists of BG 1-4 and then BG varnish.) Joe's website recommends applying aged wood dark brown (wood colour) after BG3. I will post a picture after I do mine. 

Joe's ground sets out to reproduce Cremonese ground's colour (pale gold) and amazing reflectivity, so is not intended to be as dark as your ground. Perhaps Joe can comment?

[christian bayon]

6 hours ago, lpr5184 said:

It does look very pale and I doubt you will get any more color into the wood now that it is sealed with BG3.

Here is one coat of cape aloe on unsealed white wood left in the sun for two weeks to fade and then two coats of water thin clear copal varnish applied to seal the color.

Nice ground.

[Guest]

Thanks Christian.  I'm experimenting with the ingredients you mentioned in your bench thread. Do you think it needs more yellow?...maybe add some gamboge to the aloe?

[James M. Jones]

4 hours ago, christian bayon said:

Nice ground.

Agreed, is the aloe the same as what we grow ? Any ideas on how it's processed if it is? I have a giant one the wife keeps threatening to get rid of , if it's useful though.....

[Guest]

Mike

Aloe is Vera is different...

Aloe Ferox or Cape Aloe grows in South Africa and can be bought on Amazon. Look for aloe ferox bitter extract. It comes in powder form which can then be dissolved in vodka.

DISCLAIMER------WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T DRINK, ALOE FEROX IS A POWERFUL COLON CLEANSER

[christian bayon]

1 hour ago, lpr5184 said:

Thanks Christian.  I'm experimenting with the ingredients you mentioned in your bench thread. Do you think it needs more yellow?...maybe add some gamboge to the aloe?

No, you are , in my opinion, at the limit of too much colour. No more yellow! If you want a better experimentation, do it on plain maple and spruce carved, everything looks nice on a nice figured rib.

[Guest]

Agreed Thanks Christian!!

[joerobson]

13 hours ago, jowl said:

Very nice! 

However I don't believe the wood is sealed until the application of balsam ground varnish (for the uninitiated Joe's ground system consists of BG 1-4 and then BG varnish.) Joe's website recommends applying aged wood dark brown (wood colour) after BG3. I will post a picture after I do mine. 

Joe's ground sets out to reproduce Cremonese ground's colour (pale gold) and amazing reflectivity, so is not intended to be as dark as your ground. Perhaps Joe can comment?

The Balsam Ground will enhance the colors of the wood.  The purpose is to replicate the deep and varied reflectivity of the Cremonese ground.  I provide the Aged Wood Colors to give you control of the color of the wood, which is a separate consideration from the ground.

Also one can use other alcohol soluble colors in the Balsam Ground.

Joe

[Peter K-G]

What's the difference between BG and varnish, looks like varnish

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

On 11/2/2017 at 10:14 PM, lpr5184 said:

It does look very pale and I doubt you will get any more color into the wood now that it is sealed with BG3.

Here is one coat of cape aloe on unsealed white wood left in the sun for two weeks to fade and then two coats of water thin clear copal varnish applied to seal the color.

I have been looking into using another South African aloe, though I have to admit to being modestly discouraged by the prospect of harvesting enough sap to make it worthwhile.  And then there is acquiring the plant in the first place.  But I am intrigued by this color.  I'll have to look up Christian's thread.

[joerobson]

1 hour ago, Peter K-G said:

What's the difference between BG and varnish, looks like varnish

Peter,

The Balsam Ground when completed is entirely below the surface of the wood.  This surface is after #3.

Joe

[Peter K-G]

I see! what's the main purpose, to seal or enhance contrasts or both. This summer I have tested a lot of ways to prepare the wood before I seal it with glue size (I'm strongly against letting varnish go into the wood). Conclosion from all tests - letting the varnish penetrate the wood (burn the flames) gives the best result in terms of beauty, but that is not what I want.

coloring a flat piece is easy, but that's not how violin plates are, especially the top.

I'm kind of okay with what I have - quark/lime/linseed oil glue size and my own varnish in different colors - but I want more...