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Is the label on this violin legit?


GrandPhuba
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A violin is being sold from Prague, Czech Republic, with a Socquet Label. I've seen threads about this maker before, and have seen violins with the label similar to the one below.

My concern, however, is that the exact year in on this label was not specified: see that there's a 17 there, consistent to the maker being from the 1700s, but the last 2 digits were left blank.

FINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddle

Are there any red flags as to the authenticity and value of this violin's age and label? Personally I don't care if this is a high value violin or not, would just like to know if the label is genuine, and if it's actually from the 18th century and not a 'fake' modern antique-ized violin.

Here are additional photos of this violin:

FINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddle

FINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddleFINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddleFINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddle

FINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddleFINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddleFINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddle

FINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddleFINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddleFINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddle

FINE-4-4-STEINER-type-OLD-VIOLIN-Label-SOCQUER-a-Paris-fiddle

Edited by GrandPhuba
Removed extra spaces
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I'm not one of the experts here, but it sure doesn't look like an 18th-c. violin to me.  There seem to be a crack or something down at the saddle, but other than that, there is very little evidence of authentic wear of any kind.  Looks virtually new, in fact.  If you spend any time around violins, you learn to be suspicious of labels on principle--if the violin in all other aspects looked like a Socquet, then you'd consider the label, which in this case looks like it was printed last week.  Be patient, someone will come on here and give you a more specific attribution.  How does it sound? 

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It's been said around here many times, in one wording or another, "read the violin, not the label".  Labels are too easy to fake or swap around to ever be proof of provenance.  A label consonant with the violin's appearance, such as a "Made in Germany" fake Strad label in an obvious Markie may help you date it, or confirm what you already know.

The label looks ostentatiously fake to me, with the year date not filled in, and the paper character as well as the print quality not authentic.  The violin was either built-on-back or made on an outside mold, but from the photos given, I can't determine which.  IMHO, it doesn't look like an antique Markie, but doesn't give enough evidence of its origin to go beyond that.  I'd estimate it dates later than WW I, wherever it came from.

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Thanks everyone for sharing your input. 

Definitely will not buy a violin that sounded crap. I have experience playing a violin and so can decide on its sound. As for experience or know-how in "reading a violin", that I don't have.

Seems to be unanimous that the label is not congruent to the violin.

Given that, ignoring the label now, is the violin in good shape in terms of exterior build quality?

Can we also rule out that this is a French violin (as the seller claims it to be)? 

I ask this because I have yet to visit the seller, and see and examine the violin personally. If you guys think it's inferior, I won't bother spending time to visit it. 

 

 

Edited by GrandPhuba
grammar
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24 minutes ago, GrandPhuba said:

Thanks everyone for sharing your input. 

Definitely will not buy a violin that sounded crap. I have experience playing a violin and so can decide on its sound. As for experience or know-how in "reading a violin", that I don't have.

Seems to be unanimous that the label is not congruent to the violin.

Given that, ignoring the label now, is the violin in good shape in terms of exterior build quality?

Can we also rule out that this is a French violin (as the seller claims it to be)? 

I ask this because I have yet to visit the seller, and see and examine the violin personally. If you guys think it's inferior, I won't bother spending time to visit it. 

 

 

I can't rule out a French origin without looking inside it.  If the linings are continuous over the corner blocks (indicating use of an outside mold), I'd consider it might be French (could be Chinese, too, depending on age).  Making a call between a 20th. century German (or Eastern European) trade instrument trying to be French, and a 20th. century French trade instrument on the basis of the photos you have is beyond my current abilities.  The French have made a lot of mass produced student trade fiddles.  The violin itself looks OK, though I'd check out what seem to be saddle/lower bout cracks.  At this point, it's all about sound and price.  That's up to you.  Go play it.  If you like it, start the haggling low.  You have a good initial position from the label being fake.  :)

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23 minutes ago, Guido said:

I would think the arching makes a new-ish instrument (China or Reghi) somewhat unlikely.

“There's a sucker born every minute.”
― P.T. Barnum

:lol:

Formerly, I might have agreed with you, but just having seen the parade of expertly antiqued fiddles of all descriptions in Bass Clef's thread, my faith in visual appearance is rapidly eroding.

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58 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

“There's a sucker born every minute.”
― P.T. Barnum

:lol:

Formerly, I might have agreed with you, but just having seen the parade of expertly antiqued fiddles of all descriptions in Bass Clef's thread, my faith in visual appearance is rapidly eroding.

After the first couple of pages on Bass Clef's thread on the fractional violin I grew tiered of "Bass Clef threads". :huh: I did really enjoy the plunge thread though!

I just went and had a look at those new instruments now. WOW!

One would hope that none of these are from China or Reghi though. :ph34r:

Regarding the OP fiddle, my guess would have been Vogtland between WW1 and WW2. Even then, the high arch is a little bit unusual.

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