BassClef

I Struck Gold on the Electronic Bay (what carat?) - 1/8 Antique Violin - Info Requested

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3 hours ago, franciscus said:

I corrected the post you cited - sorry, I made a mistake. Regardless on that, I'd say that the period 1960-1965 would be pretty close.

Hi Franc,good to hear from you again - though you are making me confused with your statement.

I'm certainly unaware of the production of those type of violin after the war, especially in this form with integral bassbar and this type of label, which is nearly identical with the lettering used in the prewar Germany. I'm not experted in exactly dating cases, but I've had many of this type of case, too, containing 1920s violins, so that I won't be sure if there could be taken any evidence from this helping to date the instrument. Even the type of the fittings and bow make me rather think of pre 1939 than later.

What Jacob was saying " That "made in czechoslovakia" means post 1919 Schönbach is fairly uncontroversial, since “Czechoslovaki didn’t exist until then. The Schönbach violin making was roughly wiped out after WWII as the majority of Schönbacher, who were Sudetendeutsche, were expelled, some of the older ones will tell you in what dreadful circumstances. Ergo your fiddle is between those dates.this was mostly my opinion, too, and I saw just a very few labelled 50s or 60s czech violins, bearing inscriptions like "Luby Cremona" or one time "Made in C.S.S.R:", but of very different type than the OP.

Reg. the name of the country, after a short research I found out, that the name CSSR was introduced in 1960, not earlier as I was supposing, and that there were short periods when the name was written as Czecho-Slowakia from 1918-20 and 1938-39 (this hiyphem was mentioned in some posts before). But this is a sidenote only.

OTOH, I'm absolutely uninformed, if there were (labelled) czech violins officially exported to the US after the war at all, if it was so easy for them to get through the iron curtain etc..

When you are writing that there were "zig millions" of 50s and 60s violins from Czechoslowakia, are you absolutely sure that they were made in this time frame, or could it be that they were exported only to your country during this period, but produced a good time earlier, before the war?

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7 hours ago, Blank face said:

Hi Franc,good to hear from you again - though you are making me confused with your statement.

I'm certainly unaware of the production of those type of violin after the war, especially in this form with integral bassbar and this type of label, which is nearly identical with the lettering used in the prewar Germany. I'm not experted in exactly dating cases, but I've had many of this type of case, too, containing 1920s violins, so that I won't be sure if there could be taken any evidence from this helping to date the instrument. Even the type of the fittings and bow make me rather think of pre 1939 than later.

Hello, Blank face, I'm glad to have an opportunity to exchange a few words with you again. And yes, I was speeding - the lettering on the Czechoslovakian labels I was writing about is different, typically like this one (picture was taken from the interesting blog of Jedidjah de Vries):

lig14.jpg

If I remember well, Rue has (or had) one of these violins. 

7 hours ago, Blank face said:

When you are writing that there were "zig millions" of 50s and 60s violins from Czechoslowakia, are you absolutely sure that they were made in this time frame, or could it be that they were exported only to your country during this period, but produced a good time earlier, before the war?

I cannot be absolutely sure, but in the 60s/70s every musical shop in former Yugoslavia has had a few outfits (brand new) with the violins labeled as the one from the picture and - besides a small number of violins from Mengeš, like the one we have a pleasant conversation about - these violins were the only violins that one could purchase regularly back then. Musical schools have had a lot of them in their fleets too. Regarding the case, I agree that it is not a sure proof for anything, but the cases in mentioned outfits were of the same type, besides the different lock and the interior - cases I am familiar with have been covered with the colorful wallpaper.

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Hi Franc,

thanks for the explanation! This is another interesting theme for us "specialists" in modern Central East European violin production.;) Of course, the problem is, that nobody else is usually interested in these matters, which are regarded as meaningless to the world of valuable violins, and therefore exists no reliable source of reference than limited personal experience.

Though I was rummaging during the years shortly after the fall of the iron curtain through uncountable heaps of violins sampled at many places of Eastern Europe, I don't remember to see one of this labels you are showing. It would be good to have such a labelled example at hand to study, if there are, and if so, which kind of differences exist to the pre-war production, in regards of construction, bassbar, varnish etc. Maybe it's sometimes not enough to judge it by gut feeling or a general knowledge about periods of historical determined production. But the general opinion can be well studied within this thread, and maybe it's not worthwhile for the public to know if a low grade (put in here the attributes from the thread) was made some 30 years earlier or later.

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

Though I was rummaging during the years shortly after the fall of the iron curtain through uncountable heaps of violins sampled at many places of Eastern Europe, I don't remember to see one of this labels you are showing. It would be good to have such a labelled example at hand to study, if there are, and if so, which kind of differences exist to the pre-war production, in regards of construction, bassbar, varnish etc. Maybe it's sometimes not enough to judge it by gut feeling or a general knowledge about periods of historical determined production. But the general opinion can be well studied within this thread, and maybe it's not worthwhile for the public to know if a low grade (put in here the attributes from the thread) was made some 30 years earlier or later.

Here, one can find (and buy, if one likes it, for 300€ - think that the price is negotiable) the nice 3/4:  OLX. As I said before, think that our friend Rue has the very similar one. And, I do not think that these violins are worthless nor unplayable. But, it is just my humble opinion.

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Rue   

I do have one! Purchased in 1972 or 1973 (unlike Franciscus, I think my memory is going. ..) and I recall being told it was old stock - so no idea when  it was actually made.

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2 hours ago, franciscus said:

Here, one can find (and buy, if one likes it, for 300€ - think that the price is negotiable) the nice 3/4:  OLX. As I said before, think that our friend Rue has the very similar one.

Thank you very much! Though the photos are somehow of low resolution resp. not very well focussed, I think I can make out some differences to the OP, the greatest might be, that the rib corners aren't flush with the plates. This could be an evidence for a different construction method, using a mould in opposite to the built on the back way of the pre war violins. Somehow what I would expect.

2 hours ago, franciscus said:

 And, I do not think that these violins are worthless nor unplayable. But, it is just my humble opinion.

Well said;)!

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