BassClef

I Struck Gold on the Electronic Bay (what carat?) - 1/8 Antique Violin - Info Requested

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@ Bass Clef - I am beginning to sense a kindred spirit........as I type, not  even 1/2 metre away I have hanging in my office in pride of place, what I had always thought to

be the "Original" junk violin, but after the commentary so far maybe yours is superior rubbish?

Ours  has a 330 mm back, so somewhat larger than your 1/8 - which I agree has been devilishly lucky to survive the vicissitudes of time and infant players!

A rare gem indeed......:blink:

But back to our collectable which is beautifully labelled

 Parrot, Article no.1417 - Made in China.

It has one chipped corner(damn these infant vandals)but is otherwise in brilliant original condition.

This thing is so cool because of the craquelure-no, really(and I'm pretty sure the purfling is painted on), but oh my, the bee stings are so long and delicate

I love the way they point all over the place except the corners.

The strings resemble tinsel and it already had 4 fine tuners on the tail piece when it arrived, which IS ebony and in PERFECT condition(jealous,much?)

the saddle is rosewood and the pegs and fingerboard are painted black, but....

The absolute clincher for me is the factory cleats on the join in the back - well there is at least one - and after all it can't be a repair because that would be a ridiculous proposition,wouldn't it?

I have never ascertained when Chinese production started or how they were obliged to label(would love to learn about any Chinese McKinnley act equivalent info)

- thus unable to date it. 

But I so wonder if is pre- or post Mao Tse Tung (or whatever his culturally appropriate moniker is now.........)

I don't want to hijack your thread so I won't post pictures of my 'precious', in deference to your wonderful artifact but

I say to you Bass Clef 

"JUNK VIOLIN OWNERS UNITE"    -   The Age of the Barbarian will follow the Revolution!

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

The scythe and pitchfork wielding members let you off easy.

It's not like the old days when they would burn you and the violin at the stake in the village square.:lol:

One has the impression the OP's pride in this thing might not be entirely sincere.   Without the ego crushing disappoint, where's the fun in a full throttled blasting!

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BassClef   
5 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

The scythe and pitchfork wielding members let you off easy.

It's not like the old days when they would burn you and the violin at the stake in the village square.:lol:

I can't imagine what these rabid individuals would do to me if they got a hold of me in real life. Scary, really. In the plunge thread I liked an old factory violin because of its color and association with Austria (albeit very loose). Hot headed posters like Lucitano (who has since changed his screen, seemingly in shame) came at me strong, trying to shake me at my core and run me out of town. Now I favor a lower quality factory made instrument due to its size and age and I am being targeted by internet bullies and tough guys, all vying to be the supreme lord of the flies & looking to raise themselves a little higher by stepping on me. It's a struggle, I take it day by day.

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5 hours ago, Blank face said:

For several times I wrote about the double side printed Stradi-label, one side made in Germany, the backside ...in Czechoslowakia. This might illustrate the point, that these wholesalers were extremely economic people, and I won't imagine that they wasted some of their printed sheets, only because the typing was out of fashion, with a hyphen or an old style. That's making relying on a label a bit questionable. But with the rest you might be right.;)

 

Having inspected and overworked some of these "all inclusive" fiddles, proudly presented by economically thinking parents (cp. above), I can assure everybody, that the costs to put them into a somehow "working" order ain't much different than to do the same with BassCleff's fiddle. You start putting into the dust bin the bridge, strings, pegs, chinrest, in most cases the tailpiece, which all is of the cheapest never-working quality, and install everything new with minimum quality set-up. Next might be the bow, loosing it's hair after some minutes of playing, but it's impossible to rehair, because the moth-eaten hair was superglued into the head and microscopic synthetic frog. The case will go the same way a few months later, it's parts separating after some careless childish usage.

After all is done as good as it might be possible, the child has a piece of plastic with a small wooden core, but the parents can tell that their child has it's own tiddle-fiddle now.

Don't know how it will look like when it some day, with god's mercy, will have the same respectable age like the OP.

Cheers!

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Yes, there have been some condescending individuals that come and go on the forum. My attitude is even if the instrument is a worthless piece of junk, who am I to judge if it brings someone enjoyment? In that case, I guess they got their moneys worth and it served some useful purpose.

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3 hours ago, mood2000 said:

- Czech violins are labeled as ;

(1921-1993) Made in Czechoslovakia

========================================== 

After 1957 , for legal reasons , the words "Copy of" were often included on the labels . 

==========================================

 

10 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

That "made in czechoslovakia" means post 1919 Schönbach is fairly uncontroversial, since “Czechoslovaki didn’t exist until then. The Schönbach violin making was roughly wiped out after WWII as the majority of Schönbacher, who were Sudetendeutsche, were expelled, some of the older ones will tell you in what dreadful circumstances. Ergo your fiddle is between those dates.

 

I do not neccesarilly share the dire opinion of some of the more miserable posters. You have some 5 or 6 years to repair it, before your son has it as a sand pit toy, which is presumably what you wanted it for anyway, and it will not be a tragedy if it gets broken

So, mood2000 and JacobSaunders, how can I reconcile these two posts? mood2000's intel suggests that my nice old violin was made between 1921-1993 and suggests that it was made after 1957! Jacob informs us that the instrument of high esteem was made between 1919 and roughly 1945. So could this violin have been made between 1945-1993 or not? What gives???

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3 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

That thing's going to Twinkle like a bitch.  That's all it's gotta do.

Respect.

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Damn I missed page 1. Does that mean the insult phase is over?

For some reason I can't help thinking of the scene in Jaws where they cut open the belly of a Great White and out pours all sorts of unspeakable foulness, amongst which a Maine numberplate and an 1/8th size Czechoslovakian fiddle.

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58 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Which microorganisms, do you suppose, are most densely cultured on it?

Well since we've all been drooling over this violin, it's hard to keep the microorganisms apart. But to try answer your questions, the same microorganisms that live on the cottage-industry instruments you buy and sell, except probably older, smaller, and more distinguished.

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1 hour ago, David Burgess said:

Probably not. I don't have anything to sell. But I always enjoy getting together with my fiddlemaker buddies, so who knows?

Hit me up in advance if you will attend, I'll bring this instrument in person for you to feel.

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57 minutes ago, Amateur Dieudonne said:

@ Bass Clef - I am beginning to sense a kindred spirit........as I type, not  even 1/2 metre away I have hanging in my office in pride of place, what I had always thought to

be the "Original" junk violin, but after the commentary so far maybe yours is superior rubbish?

Ours  has a 330 mm back, so somewhat larger than your 1/8 - which I agree has been devilishly lucky to survive the vicissitudes of time and infant players!

A rare gem indeed......:blink:

But back to our collectable which is beautifully labelled

 Parrot, Article no.1417 - Made in China.

It has one chipped corner(damn these infant vandals)but is otherwise in brilliant original condition.

This thing is so cool because of the craquelure-no, really(and I'm pretty sure the purfling is painted on), but oh my, the bee stings are so long and delicate

I love the way they point all over the place except the corners.

The strings resemble tinsel and it already had 4 fine tuners on the tail piece when it arrived, which IS ebony and in PERFECT condition(jealous,much?)

the saddle is rosewood and the pegs and fingerboard are painted black, but....

The absolute clincher for me is the factory cleats on the join in the back - well there is at least one - and after all it can't be a repair because that would be a ridiculous proposition,wouldn't it?

I have never ascertained when Chinese production started or how they were obliged to label(would love to learn about any Chinese McKinnley act equivalent info)

- thus unable to date it. 

But I so wonder if is pre- or post Mao Tse Tung (or whatever his culturally appropriate moniker is now.........)

I don't want to hijack your thread so I won't post pictures of my 'precious', in deference to your wonderful artifact but

I say to you Bass Clef 

"JUNK VIOLIN OWNERS UNITE"    -   The Age of the Barbarian will follow the Revolution!

I see what you're doing... cozying up to me in order to legitimize your worthless piece of junk Chinese factory VSO. Trying to get a little shine on your treasure at my expense. Lots of tongue-in-cheek faux-self-depricating insults. Well, it worked. So go ahead my fren, and post photos of your thing, I've been feeling a baseline nausea ever since my important instrument has come under attack and photos of your junk (violin) might get the vomit flowing. Do it.

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44 minutes ago, David Beard said:

One has the impression the OP's pride in this thing might not be entirely sincere.   Without the ego crushing disappoint, where's the fun in a full throttled blasting!

Let me tell you something since you seem confused. I love the violin in the OP. So ball up your fists, put on your wrestling singlet, and start piling on. Either way you are going to feel ashamed in the morning, might as well get your shots in while the adrenaline is flowing.

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21 minutes ago, BassClef said:

 

So, mood2000 and JacobSaunders, how can I reconcile these two posts? mood2000's intel suggests that my nice old violin was made between 1921-1993 and suggests that it was made after 1957! Jacob informs us that the instrument of high esteem was made between 1919 and roughly 1945. So could this violin have been made between 1945-1993 or not? What gives???

I Suspect that mood2000 is wrong. Since Jacob lives in Europe, and has seen most everything from the neighborhood, I would trust his word. After WWII Czechoslovakia was absorbed into the Soviet Bloc, and was known as the Chechoslovak Republic, then in 1960, the Chechoslovak Socialist Republic. After that,  (1992) it was the Czech Republic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_Socialist_Republic

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24 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said:

Yes, there have been some condescending individuals that come and go on the forum. My attitude is even if the instrument is a worthless piece of junk, who am I to judge if it brings someone enjoyment? In that case, I guess they got their moneys worth and it served some useful purpose.

You have just judged my instrument as a worthless piece of junk. Who are you to make such a judgment? Throwing down $35 for my precious violin was more than worth it. Every single person reading this would have grabbed it for $35 if you saw it in an antique shop, every last one of you. Haters gunna hate.

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8 minutes ago, BassClef said:

Let me tell you something since you seem confused. I love the violin in the OP.

And I sometimes feel some strange kind of love for hideously ugly prostitutes. ;)

Not that I would ever recommend them as marriage partners.

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20 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Damn I missed page 1. Does that mean the insult phase is over?

For some reason I can't help thinking of the scene in Jaws where they cut open the belly of a Great White and out pours all sorts of unspeakable foulness, amongst which a Maine numberplate and an 1/8th size Czechoslovakian fiddle.

Just what I needed.... the Scottish wit of Martin Swan. Good grief. I repaired the OP Plunge violin and posted a video of me playing sweet sweet music on it dedicated to you, and nothing. Not even a scoff or sneer-and-jeer... Now there's an opportunity to pile on and like clockwork, here you are. I've missed you my good friend. Please open up your adjective closet and come right out and say what you think about the violin. I can handle it.

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8 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

I Suspect that mood2000 is wrong. Since Jacob lives in Europe, and has seen most everything from the neighborhood, I would trust his word. After WWII Czechoslovakia was absorbed into the Soviet Bloc, and was known as the Chechoslovak Socialist Republic. After that,  it was the Czech Republic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_Socialist_Republic

SHOTS FIRED. mood2000, what say you?!

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3 minutes ago, BassClef said:

You have just judged my instrument as a worthless piece of junk. Who are you to make such a judgment? Throwing down $35 for my precious violin was more than worth it. Every single person reading this would have grabbed it for $35 if you saw it in an antique shop, every last one of you. Haters gunna hate.

I would have, and have, passed on things like this. Too much time and effort to get it to playing condition, and by the time you raise the price high enough to get your money back, there's no market for it. Wouldn't even have it in my shop!

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8 minutes ago, martin swan said:

To paraphrase Churchill

"In the morning I may feel ashamed, but your fiddle, Madam, will still be ugly."

And yet you keep coming back, you sick sick man. That's why I like you.

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3 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

And I sometimes feel some strange kind of love for hideously ugly prostitutes. ;)

My man!

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5 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

And I sometimes feel some strange kind of love for hideously ugly prostitutes. ;)

Have you ever considered a career as a televangelist?  :ph34r:

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5 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

I would have, and have, passed on things like this. Too much time and effort to get it to playing condition, and by the time you raise the price high enough to get your money back, there's no market for it. Wouldn't even have it in my shop!

Got it.

***wink wink***

Me too, I'd never buy a $35 violin with real purfling.

giphy.gif

Look at Jeb's expression as he makes contact. All day Doug, All day.

 

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4 hours ago, mood2000 said:

In 1891 the McKinley Tariff Act was put into law which required that items that were imported into the United States be marked with the country of origin . Also , if the label includes any English, it was made for the US market - the vast majority of the European factory instruments were made for export to the US . 

In 1914 this act was revised to require that the words "Made in" be used .

Once again in 1921 the act was revised to require that the country of origin name be in English .
======================================= 

- Czech violins are labeled as ; 
(1891-1914) Bohemia
(1914-1918) Made in Bohemia 
(1918-1921) Checoslvacia 
(1921-1993) Made in Czechoslovakia 
(1938–1939) Made in Cecho-Slowakia or Czecho-slovakia 
(after 1993) Made in the Czech Republic 

========================================== 

After 1957 , for legal reasons , the words "Copy of" were often included on the labels . 

========================================== 

 

Ummm, you may be mistaken on some details here specifically with regard to Schönbach, rather than Czechoslovakia as a whole.   I believe that in 1918-1921, the hyphenated version was used, followed by "Made in Czechoslovakia".  After the German occupation of the Sudetenland, "Made in Germany" was used in Schönbach until 1945 (though I would question whether any German violins were commercially imported into the USA from 1942 to 1945).   There were also label format changes (size and typeface) not reflected in your list, which have historical meaning for dating purposes. :)

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1 hour ago, BassClef said:

You have just judged my instrument as a worthless piece of junk. Who are you to make such a judgment? Throwing down $35 for my precious violin was more than worth it. Every single person reading this would have grabbed it for $35 if you saw it in an antique shop, every last one of you. Haters gunna hate.

I said  "if" not "is'.

I'm not sufficiently qualified to appraise higher end violins such as the one you have procured. I hope you have taken out insurance when it was purchased?

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