BassClef

I Struck Gold on the Electronic Bay (what carat?) - 1/8 Antique Violin - Info Requested

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13 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said:

The scythe and pitchfork wielding members ............

I beg your pardon!  We aren't a mob of Ruritanian peasants around here, after all.  [Sheaths her katana, grounds the butt of her halberd, and makes a multiculturally rude gesture] :ph34r::lol:

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3 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Jacob, there's a first and second version of the wording on that type of label.  Prior to some point in the early 1920's, they read "Made in Czecho-Slovakia" with the hyphen.  What BC has is the later variant, circa 1923 or so.  This was followed, in the late 1920's, by a reformatted smaller label with a much more "modern" look to it.

For several times I wrote about the double side printed Stradi-label, one side made in Germany, the backside ...in Czechoslowakia. This might illustrate the point, that these wholesalers were extremely economic people, and I won't imagine that they wasted some of their printed sheets, only because the typing was out of fashion, with a hyphen or an old style. That's making relying on a label a bit questionable. But with the rest you might be right.;)

6 hours ago, FiddleDoug said:

"1.  Assuming the cracks were fixed, the seams sealed, a bridge fit, and modern strings added, what would this sell for in your shop, living room, flooded basement, digital store, or etc.?

2.  What would be the replacement value or other value were I to have this irreplaceable piece of Bohemian cultural heritage insured, as it sits?"

Here's the competition. This $60 (including shipping) violin is probably much better made, with similar quality wood, and in much better shape, than the one that you have. This one comes with case, bow, shoulder rest, extra strings, rosin, and extra bridge. It also gets decent reviews. So that's the market value for something like that. So, you have $25 to fix it up, and set it up. Good luck with that. :D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mendini-Solid-Wood-Violin-Size-4-4-3-4-1-2-1-4-1-8-1-10-1-16-1-32-/110718157281?var=&epid=1301522133&hash=item19c75101e1:m:m8JEEoDMnLnrvN7yy5vikng

s-l1600.jpg

 

Having inspected and overworked some of these "all inclusive" fiddles, proudly presented by economically thinking parents (cp. above), I can assure everybody, that the costs to put them into a somehow "working" order ain't much different than to do the same with BassCleff's fiddle. You start putting into the dust bin the bridge, strings, pegs, chinrest, in most cases the tailpiece, which all is of the cheapest never-working quality, and install everything new with minimum quality set-up. Next might be the bow, loosing it's hair after some minutes of playing, but it's impossible to rehair, because the moth-eaten hair was superglued into the head and microscopic synthetic frog. The case will go the same way a few months later, it's parts separating after some careless childish usage.

After all is done as good as it might be possible, the child has a piece of plastic with a small wooden core, but the parents can tell that their child has it's own tiddle-fiddle now.

Don't know how it will look like when it some day, with god's mercy, will have the same respectable age like the OP.

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On 10/8/2017 at 8:05 PM, BassClef said:

I am curious to know if the origin and date range of production can be ascertained from my photographs

In 1891 the McKinley Tariff Act was put into law which required that items that were imported into the United States be marked with the country of origin . Also , if the label includes any English, it was made for the US market - the vast majority of the European factory instruments were made for export to the US . 

In 1914 this act was revised to require that the words "Made in" be used .

Once again in 1921 the act was revised to require that the country of origin name be in English .
======================================= 

- Czech violins are labeled as ; 
(1891-1914) Bohemia
(1914-1918) Made in Bohemia 
(1918-1921) Checoslvacia 
(1921-1993) Made in Czechoslovakia 
(1938–1939) Made in Cecho-Slowakia or Czecho-slovakia 
(after 1993) Made in the Czech Republic 

========================================== 

After 1957 , for legal reasons , the words "Copy of" were often included on the labels . 

========================================== 

 

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5 hours ago, Don Noon said:

endless detailed photos of the most worthless eBay junk.

That thing's going to Twinkle like a bitch.  That's all it's gotta do.

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18 hours ago, David Beard said:

Comedy hour!

Cheers!

What's a violin like this worth to my fellow maestronetters? A 1/8 sized fiddle approaching a century in age, crafted by the hands of bohemian peasants?

Don't forget about the real purfling and period fittings! Of all of the cultural artifacts that survive from this period of manufacturer, a very small fraction that were made were the 1/8 or smaller instruments and of those, many were destroyed by the fractional children who used them.

Is this one of those situations where when I am in my 80s (40+ years from now) I will be laughing about how everyone ridiculed me over my worthless junk and now the violin is worth more than a thousand dollars and is so rare museums want it?

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18 hours ago, Amateur Dieudonne said:

@ BassClef

Page 1 MN - nerve wracking, isn't it? :o

The answers to your questions 1 & 2 must be about  'tuppence ha'penny'  judging by the reaction, so far.

An abyss is usually a long way down.........and you already received a lower rating.

I wonder, what do you call a violin from the Underworld ?:wacko:

 

I like your style. And I agree, this thread is severely lacking in adjectives that degrade the sanctity of the OP violin. Detractors and trolls, step your game up!

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17 hours ago, Violadamore said:

A.  Hardly a mere dog.   That thing does beat out a defunct squirrel or possum any day of the week.  Anyway, you'd have to be a were-dog.

B.  This is what you get for dragging it into The Pegbox, instead of The Auction Scroll.  BTW, it can't possibly be the "worst violin ever made".  By the inherent logic of things, that would have to be Cremonese, and can't be attained by later copies.  Go ask Bruce and Carl.

1.  If you brought that thing anywhere near my home or place of business.........................

2.  Insure it for at least $1M.  Sit on it.  Hard.  Send the remains to Jacob S. for restoration along with a modest chunk of the insurance money, and be sure to post the resultant apocalypse in a thread here for our mass delectation.

C. Tailpiece - Do what I suggested in item #2, and it's Jacob's problem.

:P:lol:

D. Bow - It might actually be worth restoring, but I have no idea what it would cost, except that the rehairer would want more than for a regular bow because things that small are tedious to work with, and I suspect that it wouldn't sell for enough to justify the expense.

 

Possums eat a lot of ticks, something you might appreciate more if you lived in the northeast. I can always count on you to enter the fray, guns blazing, katana references in hand, ready to dish out a sharp comment much to your amusement. Posting on MN is like winding up the jack-in-the-box toy... only a matter of time before VDA pops in like a wrecking ball with a mixture of helpful comments and otherwise, mostly otherwise.

Let's be honest, you'd fix this violin up and sell it for hundreds.

Tailpiece... I know this is a tough question for you and others, but how much is it worth?

How much would you sell the bow for fully restored?

 

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17 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Now, to get this discussion back on track, what do you plan to do with the violin.  That would determine how I would suggest you proceed with it.  :)

The violin will live on my wall alongside the other antique well-made violins of fractional size in my collection. I might attempt to fix the cracks. Fitting a bridge and getting a modern tailpiece and strings would be the easy and cheap part. Then I could perform a lullaby for Martin Swan and post it to Ed Heidegger's youtube account while you watch in amazement while weep with mixed and confused emotions. Although when on my wall, I prefer the antique tailpiece and old strings because I'm hip like that.

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15 hours ago, Guido said:

@BassClef

There was a thread a while ago, something "plunge" or so, where someone got some junk on ebay and got all excited - for a long time. Makes for some good reading.

It has many or all of the answers you seek.

I found the thread, the OP should never buy a violin again and needs to curtail his obsession with black Viennese instruments pre-1800. We get it, they are the diamonds in the rough of the violin trade... no need to advertise it to death. OP should never post again.

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/329003-took-the-plunge-first-ebay-violin-toughts/

 

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15 hours ago, edi malinaric said:

Mmm - don't know about the violin. If less than abysmal makes it a dog of a violin maybe it should be called a Cerberus. Of course that implies that the bow would be called a Styx.

cheers edi

Good, man, let your imagination run wild. This thread needs more adjectives.

I was hoping for an in depth analysis of the type of wood, the carving of the scroll, the fittings, etc. The OP violin really has been let off easy as of now.

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9 hours ago, FiddleDoug said:

"1.  Assuming the cracks were fixed, the seams sealed, a bridge fit, and modern strings added, what would this sell for in your shop, living room, flooded basement, digital store, or etc.?

2.  What would be the replacement value or other value were I to have this irreplaceable piece of Bohemian cultural heritage insured, as it sits?"

Here's the competition. This $60 (including shipping) violin is probably much better made, with similar quality wood, and in much better shape, than the one that you have. This one comes with case, bow, shoulder rest, extra strings, rosin, and extra bridge. It also gets decent reviews. So that's the market value for something like that. So, you have $25 to fix it up, and set it up. Good luck with that. :D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mendini-Solid-Wood-Violin-Size-4-4-3-4-1-2-1-4-1-8-1-10-1-16-1-32-/110718157281?var=&epid=1301522133&hash=item19c75101e1:m:m8JEEoDMnLnrvN7yy5vikng

s-l1600.jpg

I'm not buying it.

The Mendini brand instruments are trash right out of the box. Like Blank Face states, almost every part of the instrument is unusable, and they come with false purfling, painted on to trick the amateur violin enthusiast into thinking it's worth $60. Don't fall into this trap Doug! I would also guess that the wood on the Mendini is considerable worse even than the OP instrument. Please keep me in mind if another worthless 1/8 or smaller properly-purfled violin 80+ years old comes in to your shop. I will pay for shipping and buy you a beer to take the thing off of your hands. Thank you in advance for generously shipping me all of your antique fractional violins of similar value to OP. PM me for my address. That goes to anyone reading. I love stuff like the OP violin, it would make me very happy to amass an entire wall of this stuff to look at.

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8 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

That "made in czechoslovakia" means post 1919 Schönbach is fairly uncontroversial, since “Czechoslovaki didn’t exist until then. The Schönbach violin making was roughly wiped out after WWII as the majority of Schönbacher, who were Sudetendeutsche, were expelled, some of the older ones will tell you in what dreadful circumstances. Ergo your fiddle is between those dates.

 

I do not neccesarilly share the dire opinion of some of the more miserable posters. You have some 5 or 6 years to repair it, before your son has it as a sand pit toy, which is presumably what you wanted it for anyway, and it will not be a tragedy if it gets broken

Cheers Jacob. Antique eBay violins of cultural significance, like that in the OP, really bring out the loons on here, haha, they love it.

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7 hours ago, Don Noon said:

One would expect quite a lot of thing to be flying through the air in a thread claiming to have "struck gold" and then posting endless detailed photos of the most worthless eBay junk.

I do enjoy reading some of the more creative insults, though.:)  Or maybe that was the intent of the thread?

You studied every last photo and enjoyed yourself, you can't get enough of this stuff. I'm still waiting for a truly scathing review of the OP violin, mayhap you're up to the task?

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9 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I was thinking that the original post was a joke. It's not?

Oh well, it's been an interesting and informative thread, either way.

Don't cast your vote until everyone's weighed in ;)

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15 minutes ago, Blank face said:

It's missing an eye, and had been shot through the heart, but NOT BAD! Just the type of beaten down old fractional that moves my needle. Thanks for the hot tip on this current auction opportunity.

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7 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Jacob, there's a first and second version of the wording on that type of label.  Prior to some point in the early 1920's, they read "Made in Czecho-Slovakia" with the hyphen.  What BC has is the later variant, circa 1923 or so.  This was followed, in the late 1920's, by a reformatted smaller label with a much more "modern" look to it.

Fantastic history lesson. Only thing missing is footnotes.

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4 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Oh, sorry. I'll delete that post if you want.

No keep it up please, there are hungry animals out there that need posts like yours to latch onto to in order to feel secure with their positions. Gotta keep them guessing, thanks for your support Dave, will I be seeing you at the CVME next week?

http://www.reedyeboahviolins.com/

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6 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I’m not to sure I would worry too much about what label some American wholesaler stuck in and when. Czechoslovakia in German, for instance starts with a “T”

Good, this is also not the type of thing I worry about when acquiring ancient instruments of cultural significance. I mean, seriously...

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1 hour ago, BassClef said:

Antique eBay violins of cultural significance, like that in the OP

Which microorganisms, do you suppose, are most densely cultured on it?

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1 hour ago, BassClef said:

No keep it up please, there are hungry animals out there that need posts like yours to latch onto to in order to feel secure with their positions. Gotta keep them guessing, thanks for your support Dave, will I be seeing you at the CVME next week?

http://www.reedyeboahviolins.com/

Probably not. I don't have anything to sell. But I always enjoy getting together with my fiddlemaker buddies, so who knows?

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