I Struck Gold on the Electronic Bay (what carat?) - 1/8 Antique Violin - Info Requested

[BassClef]

Last week I was delighted to open a package containing an antique 1/8 sized violin with genuine purfling. As usual, I am curious to know if the origin and date range of production can be ascertained from my photographs. Thank you in advance for your comments, opinions, and professional judgment. Also included in the package was a vintage violin case and bow. I paid $65 for the violin initially and the seller refunded me $30 once i discovered 2 cracks under the tailpiece area, so all in, I'm out $35 plus s/h for this fine piece of cultural heritage.

 

 

[BassClef]

[jacobsaunders]

I'm sure, in your wisdom, that you realise that "made in czechoslovakia" means post 1919 Schönbach

[BassClef]

5 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I'm sure, in your wisdom, that you realise that "made in czechoslovakia" means post 1919 Schönbach

Is there an end date to the estimated years of production for this important work of art? 1919-19??.

What quality of Schönbach violin work does this violin fall under?

Thank you for your sage teaching.

Here are the bow and tailpiece. Are they also run of the mill dozenmade Schönbach garbageware?

Worth rehairing the bow?

 

 

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, BassClef said:

What quality of Schönbach violin work does this violin fall under?

Abysmal.  It falls considerably under "abysmal", in fact.

Somehow, I get this urge to scratch you behind the ears, and give you a "chew treat", for trotting in with this carcass and dropping it at our feet.

[Rue]

The sad thing is - I must be picking something up on MN because I recognized it as a "Strad copy" ...

Before I saw the label that is...

[Violadamore]

18 minutes ago, Rue said:

The sad thing is - I must be picking something up on MN because I recognized it as a "Strad copy" ...

Before I saw the label that is...

That's good, Rue!  [Exaggeratedly offers her a "Beggin' Strip", then runs behind the bar, giggling, to avoid the reaction.......]

[Rue]

[Violadamore]

9 minutes ago, Rue said:

I see nothing sad about you getting used to looking at violins and seeing things you didn't used to.  It's what we're all here for.  Along with having fun......

[Rue]

I'm here for the fun. Anything I may learn along the way is purely a perk! 

[FiddleDoug]

45 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Abysmal.  It falls considerably under "abysmal", in fact.

Somehow, I get this urge to scratch you behind the ears, and give you a "chew treat", for trotting in with this carcass and dropping it at our feet.

I agree!   Rather than asking what carat, it should be more like carrot.

[BassClef]

This is fantastic! Thanks for the encouragement guys, I was worried that I had the worst violin ever made. I am relieved to find out that it is merely worse than abysmal and comparable to a vegetable and that I am a mere dog. Not bad for page 1 maestronut outrage. I can work with this! Some questions for VDA, FiddleDoug, and any other brave reader willing to enter the fray:

1.  Assuming the cracks were fixed, the seams sealed, a bridge fit, and modern strings added, what would this sell for in your shop, living room, flooded basement, digital store, or etc.?

2.  What would be the replacement value or other value were I to have this irreplaceable piece of Bohemian cultural heritage insured, as it sits?

Talk to me about the bow and the tailpiece, how much would you sell an antique 1/8 sized tailpiece like this one for? Careful what you say... I'm a buyer if your price is low enough.

Meanwhile, Rue innocently popped into the line of fire to make a classy comment and got hit in the process. Page 1 is a dangerous place to post...

 

 

 

[David Beard]

Comedy hour!

[Amateur Dieudonne]

@ BassClef

Page 1 MN - nerve wracking, isn't it? 

The answers to your questions 1 & 2 must be about  'tuppence ha'penny'  judging by the reaction, so far.

An abyss is usually a long way down.........and you already received a lower rating.

I wonder, what do you call a violin from the Underworld ?

 

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, BassClef said:

This is fantastic! Thanks for the encouragement guys, I was worried that I had the worst violin ever made. I am relieved to find out that it is merely worse than abysmal and comparable to a vegetable and that I am a mere dog. Not bad for page 1 maestronut outrage. I can work with this! Some questions for VDA, FiddleDoug, and any other brave reader willing to enter the fray:

1.  Assuming the cracks were fixed, the seams sealed, a bridge fit, and modern strings added, what would this sell for in your shop, living room, flooded basement, digital store, or etc.?

2.  What would be the replacement value or other value were I to have this irreplaceable piece of Bohemian cultural heritage insured, as it sits?

Talk to me about the bow and the tailpiece, how much would you sell an antique 1/8 sized tailpiece like this one for? Careful what you say... I'm a buyer if your price is low enough.

Meanwhile, Rue innocently popped into the line of fire to make a classy comment and got hit in the process. Page 1 is a dangerous place to post...

 

 

 

A.  Hardly a mere dog.   That thing does beat out a defunct squirrel or possum any day of the week.  Anyway, you'd have to be a were-dog.

B.  This is what you get for dragging it into The Pegbox, instead of The Auction Scroll.  BTW, it can't possibly be the "worst violin ever made".  By the inherent logic of things, that would have to be Cremonese, and can't be attained by later copies.  Go ask Bruce and Carl.

1.  If you brought that thing anywhere near my home or place of business.........................

2.  Insure it for at least $1M.  Sit on it.  Hard.  Send the remains to Jacob S. for restoration along with a modest chunk of the insurance money, and be sure to post the resultant apocalypse in a thread here for our mass delectation.

C. Tailpiece - Do what I suggested in item #2, and it's Jacob's problem.

D. Bow - It might actually be worth restoring, but I have no idea what it would cost, except that the rehairer would want more than for a regular bow because things that small are tedious to work with, and I suspect that it wouldn't sell for enough to justify the expense.

 

[Violadamore]

Now, to get this discussion back on track, what do you plan to do with the violin.  That would determine how I would suggest you proceed with it.  

[Guido]

@BassClef

There was a thread a while ago, something "plunge" or so, where someone got some junk on ebay and got all excited - for a long time. Makes for some good reading.

It has many or all of the answers you seek.

[edi malinaric]

3 hours ago, Amateur Dieudonne said:

- snip -

I wonder, what do you call a violin from the Underworld ?

 

Mmm - don't know about the violin. If less than abysmal makes it a dog of a violin maybe it should be called a Cerberus. Of course that implies that the bow would be called a Styx.

cheers edi

[FiddleDoug]

"1.  Assuming the cracks were fixed, the seams sealed, a bridge fit, and modern strings added, what would this sell for in your shop, living room, flooded basement, digital store, or etc.?

2.  What would be the replacement value or other value were I to have this irreplaceable piece of Bohemian cultural heritage insured, as it sits?"

Here's the competition. This $60 (including shipping) violin is probably much better made, with similar quality wood, and in much better shape, than the one that you have. This one comes with case, bow, shoulder rest, extra strings, rosin, and extra bridge. It also gets decent reviews. So that's the market value for something like that. So, you have $25 to fix it up, and set it up. Good luck with that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mendini-Solid-Wood-Violin-Size-4-4-3-4-1-2-1-4-1-8-1-10-1-16-1-32-/110718157281?var=&epid=1301522133&hash=item19c75101e1:m:m8JEEoDMnLnrvN7yy5vikng

[jacobsaunders]

14 hours ago, BassClef said:

Is there an end date to the estimated years of production for this important work of art? 1919-19??.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That "made in czechoslovakia" means post 1919 Schönbach is fairly uncontroversial, since “Czechoslovaki didn’t exist until then. The Schönbach violin making was roughly wiped out after WWII as the majority of Schönbacher, who were Sudetendeutsche, were expelled, some of the older ones will tell you in what dreadful circumstances. Ergo your fiddle is between those dates.

 

I do not neccesarilly share the dire opinion of some of the more miserable posters. You have some 5 or 6 years to repair it, before your son has it as a sand pit toy, which is presumably what you wanted it for anyway, and it will not be a tragedy if it gets broken

[Don Noon]

14 hours ago, BassClef said:

Page 1 is a dangerous place to post...

One would expect quite a lot of thing to be flying through the air in a thread claiming to have "struck gold" and then posting endless detailed photos of the most worthless eBay junk.

I do enjoy reading some of the more creative insults, though.  Or maybe that was the intent of the thread?

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

That "made in czechoslovakia" means post 1919 Schönbach is fairly uncontroversial, since “Czechoslovaki didn’t exist until then. The Schönbach violin making was roughly wiped out after WWII as the majority of Schönbacher, who were Sudetendeutsche, were expelled, some of the older ones will tell you in what dreadful circumstances. Ergo your fiddle is between those dates.

 

I do not neccesarilly share the dire opinion of some of the more miserable posters. You have some 5 or 6 years to repair it, before your son has it as a sand pit toy, which is presumably what you wanted it for anyway, and it will not be a tragedy if it gets broken

Jacob, there's a first and second version of the wording on that type of label.  Prior to some point in the early 1920's, they read "Made in Czecho-Slovakia" with the hyphen.  What BC has is the later variant, circa 1923 or so.  This was followed, in the late 1920's, by a reformatted smaller label with a much more "modern" look to it.

[jacobsaunders]

I’m not to sure I would worry too much about what label some American wholesaler stuck in and when. Czechoslovakia in German, for instance starts with a “T”

[Violadamore]

2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I’m not to sure I would worry too much about what label some American wholesaler stuck in and when. Czechoslovakia in German, for instance starts with a “T”

By the time we are discussing, items intended for commercial import to the USA had to be origin labeled in English.  For a prize example of this, investigate the diplomatic tussle over making the Japanese label their exports "Made in Japan" instead of "Made in Nippon".  Those labels had to be present to satisfy US Customs.  It is generally cheaper and more sales-inducing for exporters to label in advance, unless they are shipping to a local subsidiary under bond.  Nowadays this sort of requirement is practically universal, and savvy exporters who don't care to maintain a local bonded warehouse in every treaty jurisdiction they sell to, or sell to importers who can't afford local bonding and labeling, label their products in multiple languages for multiple markets.  Pick up a box of Italian breadsticks and look. 

[Bill Yacey]

16 hours ago, BassClef said:

This is fantastic! Thanks for the encouragement guys, I was worried that I had the worst violin ever made. I am relieved to find out that it is merely worse than abysmal and comparable to a vegetable and that I am a mere dog. Not bad for page 1 maestronut outrage.

 

The scythe and pitchfork wielding members let you off easy.

It's not like the old days when they would burn you and the violin at the stake in the village square.