• Announcements

    • john

      Read the rules at the top of this page before posting.   12/30/16

      The rules are copied here for your convenience: The Auction Scroll is for sharing opinions on instruments listed and offered for sale online on this site or any other. It is for the civil exchange of ideas and opinions about the instruments themselves. The opinions expressed are solely those of the poster, and do not represent the opinion of Maestronet or its forum moderators. Personal attacks on individuals will not be tolerated and will result in banning from participation in the forums. For example you are free to state that in your opinion a certain instrument labelled such and such is or is not authentic. You can also support your opinion with facts as you see them, as long as you make no reference to the individual or company listing the instrument or use hearsay in your argument. You cannot say for example that such and such an instrument is not authentic because you know the individual listing the instrument is not trustworthy or you believe the company routinely uses false descriptions of its instruments. That will get you banned. Similarly, you can defend the authenticity of an instrument with the facts as you see them, as long as personal attacks and hearsay are not used. For example, you could refer to the shape of the f holes in support of a certain origin, but what you cannot do is attack any individuals that may hold a different opinion. This is a unique forum, so please abide by these rules to ensure it continues in its current form.
not telling

Was ist das? (German cello)

Recommended Posts

Hornsteiner was a music shop in Passau who sold no end of cheap stuff from everywhere, that he stuck his Label in. Mostly Musikwinkel, although he was an ethnic Mittenwalder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Hornsteiner was a music shop in Passau who sold no end of cheap stuff from everywhere, that he stuck his Label in. Mostly Musikwinkel, although he was an ethnic Mittenwalder.

Are you sure that the question is about the instrument, not the young lady?;)

BTW, to be sure about the origin, it would be good to know about the form of the corner blocks, if the linings are morticed into the, if the scroll's front fluting goes deeply to the bitter end and if the lower rib is one part or divided, as usual. IMO the cello looks nice and of good quality, even if it's a Vogtland. It appears to be a bit small at the photos, but this could be an optical flaw. What's the LOB?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks... After gluing up some seams and some attention to setup (new board etc) what would be the fair market value? No cracks visible at all, no damage.  The thing sat in an old woman's closet with loose strings for many decades... 

I'll measure lob later. Lower ribs are in 2 pieces.  Photo of fluting tk. will look at blocks/linings soon and report back.

Girl in photo is me,  and I have never been spotted just hanging on the wall of a bar. I'm over six feet tall,  though,  and this lens gave me hobbit legs. I'll see if I can get better photos of the instrument, as these are definitely distorted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
uguntde   

If this was a violin I would say a few hundred euros. But then you find those instruments for a lot more:

https://dolceviolins.net/product/a-german-violin-labeled-jacobus-hornsteiner-1936-stradivarius-model/

... which I would never pay for this.

 

If it is in good shape and makes a good sound, a German cello of this time, I would say should sell for EUR 2000-3000.

But then you will find shops that would charge more (>$5000):

http://www.andrewsfineviolins.com/C-E-L-L-O-S.html

Auction prices are about half of the prices charged by dealers.

As with all sales, the item is worth as much as a nuyer is willing to pay for it, and you need to find the buyer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
deans   

This looks like one from the 50's or 60's, lots were sold to schools. I've had a couple violas, not unlike this ebay one, which shares a lot of similarities to your cello, including the label.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mid-1950s-German-Roth-Viola-15-3-4-400mm-w-Hornsteiner-Label-and-Sivori-Bow-/232069148698?hash=item360866301a:g:BBsAAOSwGtRXyfoB

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "Jacobus Hornsteiner" appears to be an early Bubenreuth brand, especially for export purpose, because over here it's not very well known (Jacob, maybe you were thinking of the Josef Hornsteiner of Passau?).

Like with many of this brands, the quality grades can vary much. The cello with it's flted f wings, rised up edges and neatly made pegbox rear looks like a better quality range than the viola from Ebay.

Actually, auction results aren't very significant for this sort of stuff. Retailers won't asked the double prize only, in my experience it can go up to factor 5 till 10, depending of their clients.

Not Telling, thanks for clarifying! The first photos reminded me of some Renaissance paintings, angels holding stringed instruments etc.^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Blank face said:

The "Jacobus Hornsteiner" appears to be an early Bubenreuth brand, especially for export purpose, because over here it's not very well known (Jacob, maybe you were thinking of the Josef Hornsteiner of Passau?).

Yes, you are right, sorry, my mistake. We do not see American brands here and have little knowledge (or interest) in them. Perhaps an American Maestronetter could look up Jacobus Hornsteiner in an old American wholesaler catalogue? As far as the Cello is concerned, I could well imagine that it is an early Bubenreuth creation. (The angel it comes with obviously not:))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.trademarkia.com/jacobus-hornsteiner-71626703.html

Thanks, deans and everyone who responded.  This cello is probably not half as old as I thought it could have been. It would seem Hornsteiner (Jacobus) was not a person who existed.  He is a trademark of the Cleveland Scherl/Roth shop, likely a clever way to avoid "competing" with other shops according to an old maestronet thread.  Confusing, but as you all know this is still done all the time, makers putting a different name in the label for various reasons, but obviously to avoid certain work being ascribed to themselves. :lol:

I still want to know how much a cello like this should be sold for, assuming it would come with a perfect setup (I should take a picture of the current fingerboard, which looks and feels like a bad joke). Five thousand sounds closer to right, to me, since it's a cello and the workmanship looks good other than the scoopy Germanic edgework (yuck!).  But it's good, and definitely in good shape.  I can't believe it spent any time as a wallhanger near a window in a busy bar and still looks like this.    

I am somewhat confused that the Hornsteiner label was used when the workmanship looks like it is a bit of a higher quality.  Most other Hornsteiner example photos I'm finding on eBay etc. look about 300% less interesting than this.  Or maybe it is just that this cello is more pristine than anything else of a similar provenance that I'm seeing for sale.  It also seems that there was much earlier use of the name (30's at least) but the signature wasn't trademarked until 1950.  If anyone has more details that could help me out in my research, I'd really appreciate it...

Assuming the setup on this could be made right, why shouldn't it be able to sell for more than a new factory instrument from China?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.