Bass bar tuning

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

I have found very little discussion of bass bar tuning when I look through the thread history using my browser.  And there is no dedicated discussion that I can see in recent issues of the VSA Journal based on a scan of the tables of contents.

Can anyone point to any resources on the subject and/or offer their insights?  

[carl1961]

here is a nice quick video by Jon Mangum  (check out his other videos, I watch them all Awesome how he makes his fiddles from non standard wood) Great humble guy

 

And read down on the comments on this link is a nice read  

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/bass-bar-tuning.70105/

 

Also there is a this old book that might be of help  Violin Making, by W. H. Mayson

 

also a camera shot from  "The Art of Violin Making"

 

Violin Making, by W. H. Mayson, 2nd ed., 1909.pdf

[Roger Hargrave]

 'I have found very little discussion of bass bar tuning'

That's because no-one knows nuthing.

[Rue]

10 minutes ago, Roger Hargrave said:

 'I have found very little discussion of bass bar tuning'

That's because no-one knows nuthing.

*Giggle* 

[Don Noon]

1 hour ago, Roger Hargrave said:

 'I have found very little discussion of bass bar tuning'

That's because no-one knows nuthing.

... and the ones that think they do are wrong.

[Bruce Carlson]

2 hours ago, Julian Cossmann Cooke said:

I have found very little discussion of bass bar tuning when I look through the thread history using my browser.  And there is no dedicated discussion that I can see in recent issues of the VSA Journal based on a scan of the tables of contents.

Can anyone point to any resources on the subject and/or offer their insights?  

Bassbars like soundposts often are not split with the grain.

[Urban Luthier]

Although there is no reference to tuning, there is a very fine article that was just posted few days ago on Roger's site about fitting a bass bar. I'm convinced that everything one needs to know about bass bars is in this article. Happy reading!

Chris

[carl1961]

2 minutes ago, Urban Luthier said:

Although there is no reference to tuning, there is a very fine article that was just posted few days ago on Roger's site about fitting a bass bar. I'm convinced that everything one needs to know about bass bars is in this article. Happy reading!

Chris

Thanks Urban for link nice article

here is one I found here on MM by Joe Swenson 

 

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

3 hours ago, Roger Hargrave said:

 'I have found very little discussion of bass bar tuning'

That's because no-one knows nuthing.

Boom!  thanks for cutting to the chase, Roger.  Oh, and for the fitting article.  It joins my collection in the virtual Hargrave vault.

 

[carl1961]

Julian here is another Youtube that poped up while on youtube (seems youtube tries to read your mind!!)

 

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

5 hours ago, Julian Cossmann Cooke said:

I have found very little discussion of bass bar tuning when I look through the thread history using my browser.  And there is no dedicated discussion that I can see in recent issues of the VSA Journal based on a scan of the tables of contents.

Can anyone point to any resources on the subject and/or offer their insights?  

F#

[carl1961]

10 minutes ago, Torbjörn Zethelius said:

F#

Thanks for the tip, would that change if your back plate was too low already? say 318 Hz

[Michael_Molnar]

The only thing I do is adjust the peak height down to where I get an M5 frequency I want. Then I quit. Keep in mind that my violins have not won any awards. 

[PASEWICZ]

Julian, maybe you should clarify what it is you mean by "tuning"; the major shops I am familiar with do not set out for a particular goal in terms of frequency, at least in restoration.

[Marty Kasprzyk]

Before deciding how to "tune" a bass bar it might be helpful to know what the acoustical function of the bass bar is.  Attached is a recent article by Colin Gough which gives some insight.

ISMA_2017_paper_34.pdf

[PASEWICZ]

9 minutes ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Before deciding how to "tune" a bass bar it might be helpful to know what the acoustical function of the bass bar is.  Attached is a recent article by Colin Gough which gives some insight.

ISMA_2017_paper_34.pdf

Or of course, it could just be spreading a whole bunch of charts, numbers, and formulas over an operation that was perfected centuries ago by people that had none of the above.  

[Jim Bress]

Thanks Roger and Chris for the bass bar article. I found it very well written and answered a couple of questions I've been pondering. 

Cheers,

Jim

 

[carl1961]

58 minutes ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

Or of course, it could just be spreading a whole bunch of charts, numbers, and formulas over an operation that was perfected centuries ago by people that had none of the above.  

And again most those centuries ago violins (strad too), bass bar has been replaced with longer taller ones 

[PASEWICZ]

6 minutes ago, carl1961 said:

And again most those centuries ago violins (strad too), bass bar has been replaced with longer taller ones 

And...was it the physicists that replaced them?

[The Violin Beautiful]

12 minutes ago, carl1961 said:

And again most those centuries ago violins (strad too), bass bar has been replaced with longer taller ones 

Keep in mind that when bass bars (and neck angles) of baroque instruments were altered in subsequent centuries that this was done because of changes in the concert venues and the need for greater carrying power, not because of flaws in the original construction.

[Carl Stross]

Just now, The Violin Beautiful said:

Keep in mind that when bass bars (and neck angles) of baroque instruments were altered in subsequent centuries that this was done because of changes in the concert venues and the need for greater carrying power, not because of flaws in the original construction.

How do you know that ? 

[Carl Stross]

1 hour ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Before deciding how to "tune" a bass bar it might be helpful to know what the acoustical function of the bass bar is.  Attached is a recent article by Colin Gough which gives some insight.

ISMA_2017_paper_34.pdf

The article is utter rubbish. Colin Gough does not understand how a violin actually works and keeps confusing cause and effect. The finite element analysis is naive. To put it mildly. 

[The Violin Beautiful]

4 minutes ago, carl stross said:

How do you know that ? 

If that's a serious question, I'd suggest a quick google search about the development of the violin over history, which should give you plenty of the information you need. You could also read about it in violin books or hear about it from violin experts at VSA conventions. The latter two sources are what I rely on. I'd also point out that baroque players often have violins retrofitted to make them more effective for the baroque style. The retrofitted instruments are set up using the original baroque setups of a few surviving fine old violin as reference. I think this is a fairly strong sign that the original setups of the finest old instruments were quite effective in their day.

[Carl Stross]

Just now, The Violin Beautiful said:

If that's a serious question, I'd suggest a quick google search about the development of the violin over history, which should give you plenty of the information you need. You could also read about it in violin books or hear about it from violin experts at VSA conventions. The latter two sources are what I rely on. I'd also point out that baroque players often have violins retrofitted to make them more effective for the baroque style. The retrofitted instruments are set up using the original baroque setups of a few surviving fine old violin as reference. I think this is a fairly strong sign that the original setups of the finest old instruments were quite effective in their day.

Back to the original question : how do you know that a modern bar brings more carrying power ???? 

[PASEWICZ]

28 minutes ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

Keep in mind that when bass bars (and neck angles) of baroque instruments were altered in subsequent centuries that this was done because of changes in the concert venues and the need for greater carrying power, not because of flaws in the original construction.

 

8 minutes ago, carl stross said:

Back to the original question : how do you know that a modern bar brings more carrying power ???? 

In fairness, TVB wrote the "need for greater carrying power" not the the bassbar alone was responsible for more carrying power.