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Stradivari tools, again


Kimmo89
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1 hour ago, Kimmo89 said:

Templates and violin molds.

 

Does the PG mold say: Antonio Stradivari  -  La Grande ?

 

And am I right if I say the templates for corner and end blocks are made of flaming maple? Thickness seems to be 3-4mm?

 

 

No, it's "fo Grande" which is for "forma grande".

Anyway this inscription is not from Stradivari but from Cozio di Salabue.

Thickness of block templates seems to me about 1,0 or 1,5 mm, probably maple from scrap ribs.

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I see I dont know old style alphabets.

 

Yes, I know these writings are not from Stradivari, but I think I will write those for all molds.

At least the names.

 

Heres my new PG (I hope its PG this time)

Last one I ruined from the C bouts. And I was thinking to make all molds again from one piece.

I hope not too many errors, but all can be edited.

A4GIV1689 is carved next to PG. I hope this is fine, harder to edit.

 

 

työkaluja6 004.JPG

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Thanks.

 

Making tools for others is not worth the effort.

For now I will make these important tools to get all working in violin making. Of  course in classical style what will make it more enjoyable.

 

And I dont want my tools to look factory made. But somehow clean and even.

I hope these will be used hard soon.

 

 

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On 8/26/2017 at 4:18 PM, Kimmo89 said:

Thanks.

 

Making tools for others is not worth the effort.

For now I will make these important tools to get all working in violin making. Of  course in classical style what will make it more enjoyable.

 

And I dont want my tools to look factory made. But somehow clean and even.

I hope these will be used hard soon.

 

 

I'm sure "factory made" was meant as a complement.  A better choice of words might be clean and precise.  Very nice work!  The inscription is a nice touch.

-Jim

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On 8/14/2017 at 5:31 PM, David Burgess said:

Cool, reminds me of some early bowscrews I have seen. Not to say that these bowmakers made each screw using that method, but perhaps this was the method used to make the tap or male form which was used to make the die, which was used by the bowmakers to make their screws

Yes, I've been told that the early bow screws were rolled not cut. If I'm not mistaken, one indication is that the threads are proud of the diameter of the stock because the thread is a result of displacement of material.

Also, those old screws show very little wear in part because of the hardening effect of rolling the thread vs cutting it.

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2 hours ago, Jim Bress said:

I'm sure "factory made" was meant as a complement.  A better choice of words might be clean and precise.  Very nice work!  The inscription is a nice touch

Yes, I understood this. I just might sound dull sometimes because of language problems.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/20/2017 at 11:22 AM, Addie said:

The Stradivari work cradle has a similar slot in its base.

My best guess would be that there was a table or workbench with one or more rails to match the slots in the workshop to match both.   That way you could hold the piece being worked on at a comfortable position or angle while working on it in a place where the best light was available (since you'd set the table up to take advantage of the light).  "All the tools" wouldn't have given Conti all the furniture.  It might not even have given him all the tools, just those Paulo had no use for since he wasn't making instruments.  Mallets, sharpening stones, shears or knives -- anything with a general use -- might not have been part of the sale.  It would also explain why there was a second offer of a "newly discovered" chest of tools.

Edited by Rezac
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On 7/23/2017 at 5:31 AM, Kimmo89 said:

Hello Davide.

 

I was just finishing my S mold. Even if I dont know will I never use it.

I googled and found out "settembre" is how it supposed to be in italian, but I tought the mold said "setembre".

Thanks for confirmation.

 

Or maybe Stradivari was bad to read and write.

He was an artisan and a businessman.  He was wealthy, invested in other peoples business, lent money at interest and more or less ran the Amati family out of the instrument business.  He wasn't stupid.  I don't know if he had formal education, but I'm sure he could write well enough to leave a note with instructions or write a letter and have the document understood by his contemporaries.   I'm not being mean or preachy.  I just dislike romanticizing to the point where violin making in Cremona was some kind of Art Brut industry requiring luck or some savant's gift rather than education, training, the ability to experiment and enough insight to innovate.

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On 8/2/2017 at 7:08 PM, Addie said:

Two of the items have the blue and white tag from the '30's (?) Strad collection.  They may be from the Ceruti workshop.  I'll look them up later...

The 30's Strad collection is in the Cremona Violin Museum -- Museo del Violino.  It features exhibits on most of the local violin makers.  Google powered virtual tour are available on the website if anyone wants to wander through and find this exhibit.  But the f-holes look wrong for Strad.

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On 8/14/2017 at 4:51 AM, Davide Sora said:
 

Even if it were not an original from Stradivari shop, he probably used something like that.

There is also the possibility that it is an original Stradivari tool who has come in possession of Ceruti, we'll never know.....
 
The fact that it is considered original is because of Sacconi who said so, but he needed a tool to put in his book and was the only purfling tool in the collection;)

 

I think he nailed on his necks.  Most of which have been replaced at some point in the instruments' histories (the nails rust).  The 'Sleeping Beauty' still has it's original though.

Where would he have used screws?

Edited by Rezac
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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

Digging up this thread again.   I need to make a plate cradle and was curious about Strads,  dimensions?   Anyone know?  and there are lots of holes in it.  Does anyone have a guess as to how the plate was attached?   I see a round hole with a rectangular cutout in the center.  I assume that there was something there to attach it to the workbench or to a vise. 

 

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I posted a pattern.  I added the G arching lines to it.

The holes are a puzzle.  It has a notch in the base like the grad punch.  It has a hole in the middle for a bench screw.  There are notches for dowels or holdfasts at each end. Three of the plate corners have corresponding dowel holes, there are several more dowel holes, and lots of tack holes, possibly from tacks used to fasten a leather cover.

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Addie I found your drawing on PeterKG website.  When I print it out it's only about 8.5 inches wide.  Is the real one really that narrow?   When you say it has a notch in the base like the grad punch I'm not sure what you mean.  I don't see that in pictures of it.   I think multiple dowel holes would make sense.  If one gets in the way of carving you can move it to another location.

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In the new catalog of the artifacts this cradle (MS59) is attributed to Stradivari but with the benefit of the doubt. They say that "In the 1903-14 inventory we find a "violin holder in wood with a shape in the form of a violin" ; the description is not very clear and raises some doubt as to the origin of the artifact (workshop of Antonio Stradivari or Enrico Ceruti?)".

 
Anyway it could come from Stradivari workshop, clearly he had to need something like this, the details of the type of fixation or where the fixing systems were positioned does not have a fundamental importance on the final result, the important thing is that it fulfills its functional task.
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Davide,   violin holder in wood?  is there another besides this one?  is there a picture anywhere?   

Addie thanks,  I just found another thread where you posted a picture of yours.   It's still hard to see the notch in the original photo but it makes sense where you have it.  It would have to be offset from the center hole unless the bench screw goes through the cross piece also.   Do you have any idea what the purpose is of the hole near the top inside the arch?    Maybe to prevent the cradle spinning on the center screw. 

 

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It is possible that this original cradle seen in these photos, is not made of a large clean new blank.

I am thinking that the piece of wood has been taken of from one other article.

Thats why there is unecessary holes, and the size is thin.

Maybe piece of something from church, isnt the "flower" or what is it, picturing something religious?

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I have never assumed the holes were made at the same time.

The upper hole and the notch in the other end would be ideal for clamping in a tail vise.

The daisy wheel could be a doodle, it could be religious, or it could be a geometry lesson.  The figure gives both a 30-60-90 triangle and a circle divided into 60 degree arcs which could be related to cross arching.

image.gif

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But the hole in the middle and carved slot for bolt head would tell there is much missing from this cradle.

I suspect it has been rotatable, and the notch could be only for smaller clamps to hold plates not to move upwards.

Would be great to see the other side of the cradle, then it would tell all, if there is rotating scratches.

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where is the notch located in the original ?   I can't see it in the photo.   I said earlier it would need to be offset from the center hole but if it lines up with the center hole then a bolt through the hole could hold the cross piece and then the cross piece if it extends below the bottom surface of the cradle could be clamped in a vice.  You could work on side of plate then take it out of the vice turn it 180 degrees and work on the other side.   Or as Kimmo suggests it could be rotated on a central pivot. 

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