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Stradivari Drawings

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1 hour ago, JohnCockburn said:

I wonder how Davide measures the temperature?

The behaviour of the water drops on the surface of his iron suggests that the temperature might be somewhat higher than 170C.

You have a good eye on drops of water!

My iron does not have a built in thermometer, so I use a meat thermometer with a metal probe that reach 250° max, holding it against the surface of the iron with a piece of wood.

What you see in the video is probably a temperature of 180/190° that I prefer for problematic situation like very seasoned wood (very dry) with deep curl and without replacement ribs in case of irrimediable breakage (which makes me very nervous and justifies the risk of some slight burning....)

Of course higher temperature helps to facilitate bending, but you have to be extremely careful at times of contact with hot iron to avoid burns, not an easy task which requires experience and that I use only for Cs that are the most at risk of breakage. For the other ribs with less accentuated curves there is no need for such a high temperature and 170° are enough.

Very seasoned and figured wood sometimes are a nightmare to bend, by contrast the most fresh (more moisture content) and less deeply figured wood is a relaxing walk.:)

 



 


 

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5 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:
 

You have a good eye on drops of water!

 

 

 



 


 

When the drops "dance" on the surface like that, you're seeing the Leidenfrost effect, which typically has an onset close to 200C, not too inconsistent with the upper range of what you measure with your thermometer......

As you say, plain maple is extremely easy to bend even at quite low temperatures - deep flamed wood, different ball game!

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41 minutes ago, JohnCockburn said:

When the drops "dance" on the surface like that, you're seeing the Leidenfrost effect, which typically has an onset close to 200C, not too inconsistent with the upper range of what you measure with your thermometer......

I did not know the theory of the Leidenfrost effect, there is always something to learn.B)

In fact the Leidenfrost point for water should be around 185° and 200°,  I want to stress that my electronic thermometer is purchased from IKEA for less than 8 euros, it seems reasonably accurate but definitely not a scientific lab grade tool, in the boiling water marks 99°.

However, a nice feature is that you can set a temperature on the display with an alarm ringing when it is reached, very convenient for the glue and for varnish cooking, and it has a built in timer too.:P

 

 

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Davide for very curly and seasoned maple could you soak it water until completely saturated or perhaps steam it?  Would that make it easier to bend without breaking? 

 

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3 hours ago, MikeC said:

Davide for very curly and seasoned maple could you soak it water until completely saturated or perhaps steam it?  Would that make it easier to bend without breaking? 

 

I'm not a big fan of water soaking, it does not guarantee that the ribs will not break and my impression is that it makes you lose sensitivity to what's going on.

I usually just wet the ribs to get some steam benefit but mostly to avoid burns.

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11 hours ago, Stavanger said:

You can replace the resistance in it only, dont need to replace the whole thing. costs only a few dollars. The ebay ones seems to be fairly standard.

Thanks Stavanger, yes that's what I did, 12 dollars for 5 but had to request the 110V

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18 hours ago, MikeC said:

On the Muratov site you can find images of the PG and other molds.  If you save the image and print it out it will be full size.  I printed Addie's mold from PeterKG site and it was smaller.  I don't know if his drawing is wrong or it's the way I printed it.

 

http://zhurnal.lib.ru/m/muratow_s_w/violin_design.shtml

 

 

The drawings were done in Illustrator, and saved as PDFs.  The measurements are mostly from Sacconi, but check the Strad Database topic for details.

Double check that you are printing at 100%, and check Do Not Scale, if that is an option.  Some drivers may still scale down the drawings.  Jim Bress had to print at 106%.  Most people have no scaling problems, though.

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The images from Muratov site are correct size but it's hard to see the edges accurately due to the line he overlays on them.  

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I want to Thank every one that responded to my questions.  Sure received a lot of information.  I had found the web site "making the violin" although don't understand all of that either. The arching templates are a question as I don't know how much to enlarge the original drawing.

Thanks to Frank Nichols & Carl 1961 for their thoughts of wood companies.  I did however think I would get more opinions on the subject.  Its hard for me to buy looking at a picture.

Thanks again to all.  

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The making the violin website has comment on printing in the foreword / FAQs section 

The test file give you a ruler to print. Play with your print settings until the ruler prints accurately and that setting will let you print all the other drawings correctly. It took a little messing about, but works.

http://www.makingtheviolin.com/Building/Foreword/test_file.svg

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Carl 1961,

I used to think Tickfaw was the most hilarious place name I had ever heard.  Come to think of it, I still do.  :)  I have wondered if there was a Tickfaw Philharmonic, and, if so, what they would have really named it to avoid naming it after the town; I had suggested Berlin Philharmonic, but found that was already taken.

If you are just joking about living there, it would be similar to my use of Bledsoe, Texas to make fun of many things in the violin world over the years.  I can see a play-off in the largest barn in Bledsoe of the principal players of both fine orchestras (assuming neither has the budget to bring their full orchestras.  In fact, if I remember Bledsoe, I'm afraid any manly/womanly test of skill between the Tickfaw and Bledsoe personnels might better be done by the flip of a coin; and if one can't be found, a semi fresh cow chip—dry side = heads/moist side = tails—will suffice. 

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Sequim, in WA State, and Barassie, near Kilmarnock  are two of my fav's.  

Addiewell is the name of a toxic waste site and a prison, BTW.  :lol:

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Hello all, being my first post I would like to say Hi, my name is Scott, I live in Ohio. I have been lurking, reading, and searching for answers to questions leading up to my first build. I have to say thank you all for your helpful posting of information, it has been much appreciated. However relating to the last few posts about the Making a Violin website, I have yet been able to save as, or print with much success, any of the templates from that website. When I try to save, it saves the entire website, not just the pic that I can then use in a program to print out. Don't know whats going on, I've been saving and resizing/scaling many projects for years from the internet, but this one is messing with me. Normally all I have to do is save image as, or copy, and then open in a program that I can manipulate the image with, and finally print out. I have downloaded the Inkscape program that was recommended, but still no success, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

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4 hours ago, Scott Stith said:

Hello all, being my first post I would like to say Hi, my name is Scott, I live in Ohio. I have been lurking, reading, and searching for answers to questions leading up to my first build. I have to say thank you all for your helpful posting of information, it has been much appreciated. However relating to the last few posts about the Making a Violin website, I have yet been able to save as, or print with much success, any of the templates from that website. When I try to save, it saves the entire website, not just the pic that I can then use in a program to print out. Don't know whats going on, I've been saving and resizing/scaling many projects for years from the internet, but this one is messing with me. Normally all I have to do is save image as, or copy, and then open in a program that I can manipulate the image with, and finally print out. I have downloaded the Inkscape program that was recommended, but still no success, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

you right click the image with your mouse and select save as, take notice where it goes or create your own folder to collect them.

click.png

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If you try to print out Addie's forms at Kinko's or the like, they print out oversized by default, due to how their printers are set to print with a slight oversize for some reason or another. 

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Carl, yeah I've right clicked and saved to my folder made for it, but it saves as a Internet Explorer web page, not a svg, or other type of image file. It takes a few more steps to get it into print where I can adjust the scale, I can't get it exact, but withing .5mm per 10 cm. will have to keep playing or just accept it. thank you for the response.

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On 11/06/2017 at 10:16 PM, carl stross said:

No, you do not. Exposing the wood to more than 190 deg Celsius is not the best of ideas.  It's important here on MN to give advice only on issues you actually know something about. The Forum is read by many people, mostly not members. There are a couple of ways of bending ribs using heat and one or two, cold. The most reliable way is how a large factory does it - they need to get it dead right. That's why they use the lowest temp and there is a good albeit non-obvious reason for that. On the cheap, a hair curler will work just fine and will reach in the region of 190C. Temp is adjustable and the thermostat is very quick and accurate. I made five ribsets using one of those and I doubt that for my needs I'll ever bother with anything else.

Indeed, although I'm just a learner, I did my first violin on a lower temperature, like 150-160C and didn't crack so many ribs...

Juan

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On 9/3/2017 at 11:54 PM, Scott Stith said:

Carl, yeah I've right clicked and saved to my folder made for it, but it saves as a Internet Explorer web page, not a svg, or other type of image file. It takes a few more steps to get it into print where I can adjust the scale, I can't get it exact, but withing .5mm per 10 cm. will have to keep playing or just accept it. thank you for the response.

Try using the Google chrome browser

 

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