lpr5184

Perry Sultana...

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8 hours ago, lpr5184 said:

I don't know the gauge but I have three that I use and this is the middle one. For final scraping, I'll use the most flexible one which is pretty thin.  I think they are all cut from Two Cherries card scrapers which are sold at my local hardware store. I don't think they are the best and I would like to try something else, maybe Lie Nielson scrapers.

My local Woodcraft has only Crown scrapers. The Sheffield stuff i think. Really thick, like 3/32" or something in that ballpark. I'm using blue spring steel sheet stock for making scrapers. I also acquired several old spent industrial pipe cutting band saw blades that I want to try to turn into something usable.

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Thanks Nick, I'll check out the Crown scrapers when I start looking around for something better. I thought about lie Nielson because all their stuff is high quality and I'm pretty sure I saw scrapers on their website.

I remember Michael Darnton mentioning blue spring steel from McMaster Carr but I haven't tried it. I also heard of others using bandsaw blades with good success.

For outside arching I like scrapers that have a lot of flex. When scraping the inside I use a really stiff scraper for roughing and then the other flexible ones.

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So. Those sound holes. What inspires the shape? I've heard that violin f holes evolved for maximum efficiency. Something with the surface area and the edge perimeter measurement. 

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8 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

So. Those sound holes. What inspires the shape? I've heard that violin f holes evolved for maximum efficiency. Something with the surface area and the edge perimeter measurement. 

I think the flamed f hole shape was inspired from the Viola d' Amore and English viols and even further back to other ancient instruments.

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The f holes seemed at bit off to my eye so I redrew them...

As mentioned earlier the Sultana was designed to be played with wire strung strings. so as such the instrument is built heavy. After input from Conor my goal is to try and make the instrument lighter and more flexible. In the photos I have it looks like Colm is playing on Dominant strings. I'd like to use synthetics instead of steel strings so I've started to make a baroque tailpiece and saddle to use when I try all gut strings but initially I will set it up with Warchal Amber strings and a Harmonie 5 string tailpiece with integral tuners.  

 

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17 hours ago, lpr5184 said:

Thanks Nick, I'll check out the Crown scrapers when I start looking around for something better. I thought about lie Nielson because all their stuff is high quality and I'm pretty sure I saw scrapers on their website.

I remember Michael Darnton mentioning blue spring steel from McMaster Carr but I haven't tried it. I also heard of others using bandsaw blades with good success.

For outside arching I like scrapers that have a lot of flex. When scraping the inside I use a really stiff scraper for roughing and then the other flexible ones.

I like really thick scrapers for everything.  I use old plane blades.  Dead sharp, no burr put on. Flat ones for everything on the outside, and a curved one for the inside.  The way you angle the flat one, you should be able to get the entire outside surface, except for near the edges.  The flat plane blades I have are not the best, a couple of Craftasmans, and a recent Record. I'd like to pick a nice one up sometime.  Old, or new? The curved one is from an old Stanley plane.  It has an offset tab on the top with notches cut in it for an adjuster.  I never had the plane, just the blade.  It is very good steel.

I went around an entire violin once with a thin double edge razor blade.  That would take a lot of practise.

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3 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

So E, if I understand correctly, it will be tuned essentially like a 5 strong viola, that is to.say C-G-D-A-E? Any sympathetics?

Yes, correct....no sympathetics. The Sultana was not designed to have them.

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2 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

So are you doing paired courses for the four lower strings, then?

Edit - looks like all five are paired, whoops!

No I'm not doing double courses, just 5 single strings tuned...C, G, D, A, E.  Actually the Sultana in the MFA has 9 strings.

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Hey E,

Interesting that you took the scoop right to the edge, is there a reason for that? I did this on my latest fiddle too. Then I realized that when I profile the edge I end up loosing some of that nice deep scoop. It made the edge a bit thinner but which is ok. I think on my next build I won't take to the edge.

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1 hour ago, Mike Spencer said:

Hey E,

Interesting that you took the scoop right to the edge, is there a reason for that? I did this on my latest fiddle too. Then I realized that when I profile the edge I end up loosing some of that nice deep scoop. It made the edge a bit thinner but which is ok. I think on my next build I won't take to the edge.

Hey Mike

Yes ....I take the scoop right to the edge...

There are two ways of doing the edge that I learned from reading Roger Hargrave's  articles on edgework and I have done both.

For me I find taking the scoop to the edge works best. So you have to take that into consideration when figuring out how thick to make your platform. When I take it to the edge of the plate  I'll add another 0.5mm to the thickness of the platform.

The devil is in the details of how you finish the scoop....and we all have to find what works best for us. And that can change over time if you experiment with other methods.

Hope this helps

 

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I can't see the point of making one of these if you don't use the wire strings. Presumably the design was conceived to give the best sound using these and if you use modern strings you might as well make a normal shaped viola. 

 

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But then I would just have a plain ol' viola...:) where's the fun in that?........ Besides I think Colm's fiddle sounds pretty darn good with modern strings. Since this fiddle is for myself and I want a 5 string no longer than 360mm  the body dimensions seem to fit the bill.

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3 hours ago, Mark Caudle said:

I can't see the point of making one of these if you don't use the wire strings. Presumably the design was conceived to give the best sound using these and if you use modern strings you might as well make a normal shaped viola. 

 

The wire strings definitely give it a unique voice but I'm going after a different sound.

 

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11 hours ago, Mike Spencer said:

Hey E,

Interesting that you took the scoop right to the edge, is there a reason for that? I did this on my latest fiddle too. Then I realized that when I profile the edge I end up loosing some of that nice deep scoop. It made the edge a bit thinner but which is ok. I think on my next build I won't take to the edge.

Jan Spidlen has a great article about this method in a Strad Trade Secrets article.  I'm not sure the issue but my copy is from "the best of" book number 1.  It's called "Making An Edge", and like E said, it's an adaptation of Hargraves' edge method.

 

31 minutes ago, lpr5184 said:

The wire strings definitely give it a unique voice but I'm going after a different sound.

 

Does anyone know if this is the same Gerald Trimble that recorded the "First Flight" cittern album?  I love that album.

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Morning E,  I'm going to put you on the spot. :)  What measurable, tactile, shaking the magic eight ball...sign posts do you use to say, yeah I guess that's enough I'll stop graduating here?

-Jim

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2 hours ago, Jim Bress said:

Morning E,  I'm going to put you on the spot. :)  What measurable, tactile, shaking the magic eight ball...sign posts do you use to say, yeah I guess that's enough I'll stop graduating here?

-Jim

Weight and  stiffness/flexibility...Can you share your method? ...and perhaps what you learned from Joe Thrift's workshop on this?  

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