Oh no!!

[BigFryMan]

Pretty devastated as this is the nicest piece of maple I've had my hands on

Do people splice buttons on or should I just order a new back?

This is my 3rd violin. I was hoping to be making less mistakes by now!

[Emilg]

I think most of us had this opportunity to make a button graft. I made this mistake on my second.

It is indeed a nice piece of maple, and it should definately be used. Maybe make an ebony crown, in that way the graft is hardly visible.

 

[Don Noon]

I had this opportunity on my #5 violin due to the common oopsie, and on my most recent instrument, a viola, because the maple I wanted to use wasn't quite long enough.  It's a bit of work to do right, but that wood is too nice to give up on.

[Marty Kasprzyk]

make a 3/4 size violin

[BigFryMan]

1 hour ago, Don Noon said:

I had this opportunity on my #5 violin due to the common oopsie, and on my most recent instrument, a viola, because the maple I wanted to use wasn't quite long enough.  It's a bit of work to do right, but that wood is too nice to give up on.

Any guidance on how to do that Don? Is there a common technique?

[Don Noon]

The traditional technique:

 

And how I did it on violin#5 (using a milling machine):

... and a viola:

 

[James M. Jones]

It happens , Mine was #3 as well , hit me as I was laying me head down , reviewing the evenings work , bam like a hammer. the graft is holding strong ten years later. haven't cut off a button since then. 

[BigFryMan]

Thanks for all the replies guys, I'll let the maple live and I feel a lot better knowing there is a solution. I felt nearly sick to my stomach at the idea of that nice maple becoming anything short of a violin!

Been reading up this morning on the how to with an ebony crown so I'll attempt that.

Anybody got any tips on cutting ebony well?? It is so hard! Especially for cutting crisp curves like that.

 

[jezzupe]

This is the way that all makers learn to ALWAYS CUT THE BUTTON FIRST! big black pencil lines, arrows that point to it, neon signs flashing , that sort of thing.

[edi malinaric]

14 hours ago, jezzupe said:

This is the way that all makers learn to ALWAYS CUT THE BUTTON FIRST!  -snip-

Hi All - small correction to jezzupe's opening sentence...

 

"This is the way that all makers learn to ALWAYS CUT OFF THE BUTTON FIRST!"

 

So I strongly urge first time builders to do this on your first violin and get rid of the "angst" straight away!

 

Pic. 1 - Note the smooth uninterrupted flow of the top of the upper bout. It's so much easier to achieve this if the button is first removed.

 

Pic 2 - Having done numerous scarf joints when building dinghies, houses and repairing wooden gliders this was nothing strange or new to me. First one sets out the extent of the scarf joint.

 

Pic 3 - Then the difficult bit - making allowance for the shifting grain pattern so that the finished joint looks as though it isn't there. Hopefully you kept the original off-cut from the plate.

 

Pic. 4 - Cut out the insert and finish the sides to size. I use a taper because experience has shown that it is easier to end up with a near-invisible fit than if the sides are parallel.

 

Here ends Part 1

cheers edi

 

 

[~ Ben Conover]

Make a nice bread board with that. 

[Michael_Molnar]

On 4/19/2017 at 2:06 AM, BigFryMan said:

Pretty devastated as this is the nicest piece of maple I've had my hands on

Do people splice buttons on or should I just order a new back?

This is my 3rd violin. I was hoping to be making less mistakes by now!

 

1

I did that once, too. Put a button on your pattern - a big button.

You can save this piece by a graft done carefully.

[Will L]

18 hours ago, jezzupe said:

This is the way that all makers learn to ALWAYS CUT THE BUTTON FIRST! big black pencil lines, arrows that point to it, neon signs flashing , that sort of thing.

YESSSS!  

This subject comes up every several years.

The last time, I suggested two things.  One:  immediately after drawing your outline, go out to the band saw and cut two lines on either side of the button.  It's even better than warning markings.  Just make a habit of that.

Two:  Only half-joking, I suggested ALSO drawing on a button on the spruce plates as well.  By doing this I theorized that it gets us into good habits twice as fast.  And if we forget on the spruce and saw through its button, it reinforces just how easy it is to make the mistake, without the suffering.    

[Smith]

.

[Pate Bliss]

https://youtu.be/sZeqHamjyjU?t=865

 

[Jeff Jetson]

Sometimes I wonder how we let errors like this happen. I have not cut out a violin yet but when I am cutting anything my eyes are focused on the pencil line and blade and where my body parts are in relation to the blade to avoid cutting me.

[Jim Bress]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Jetson said:

Sometimes I wonder how we let errors like this happen. I have not cut out a violin yet but when I am cutting anything my eyes are focused on the pencil line and blade and where my body parts are in relation to the blade to avoid cutting me.

Maybe because the garland that you are drawing the outline from doesn't have a button.  Fatigue, distractions, knowing that the faster you work the more money you make (until you work too fast) and the universe having a little fun at your expense may also be factors.  I've been an auto mechanic and an aircraft machinist.  In those jobs speed mattered.  Working all day (accurately) at speed is tough mentally and physically.  I think it's easy to make a mistake under these conditions.  I made a few.  I haven't cut off a button yet, but I have the luxury of taking my time because violin making is a hobby for me.

-Jim

[Will L]

1 hour ago, Jeff Jetson said:

Sometimes I wonder how we let errors like this happen. I have not cut out a violin yet but when I am cutting anything my eyes are focused on the pencil line and blade and where my body parts are in relation to the blade to avoid cutting me.

The very fact that so many of us have done the unthinkable tells us that it is easier to do than we might think.

There are other amusing mistakes which I have NOT DONE (I swear!!! Oh, and I still have all my thumbs and fingers. )  But have seen them done:  A button placed on the opposite end of the back; and a bass-bar installed on the treble side.    

And the latter was done with the teacher watching the progress!  Glancing occasionally over someone's shoulder, the mistake is apparently not impossible to miss even for a seasoned pro. The left-right confusion is very easy to understand, IMO, and explains why surgeons have become so careful to mark the correct kidney to remove, for example.

[Bill Yacey]

Another good reason to finish and install the back last. If the neck is already attached to the ribs, it's pretty difficult to overlook marking the button when tracing the ribs outline onto the back.

[Don Noon]

2 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

Another good reason to finish and install the back last. If the neck is already attached to the ribs, it's pretty difficult to overlook marking the button when tracing the ribs outline onto the back.

I think the most common method is to close the box first before setting the neck, so there's no help for most of us.

I have templates (with buttons on them) that are a bit oversized, and rough cut out the plates to that line.  Later, when I trim to the final outline from the actual garland, it's kinda difficult to ignore that button that's already there.

[J.DiLisio]

Funny, this happened on my 3rd instrument as well..

The glued on button seems to be holding up fine.

[Muswell]

17 hours ago, Will L said:

 

A button placed on the opposite end of the back

Who would be daft enough to do that?  It was a good reminder not to do anything involving the brain too late at night.

[Will L]

6 hours ago, Muswell said:

Who would be daft enough to do that?  It was a good reminder not to do anything involving the brain too late at night.

I don't remember knowing the name (though I know your question is rhetoric).  Someone showed me a photograph of the instructive and wonderful little bon bon of human frailty.  

Of course it wasn't me.  If it had been I would have never mentioned it.  And if I knew who, I'd probably politely never give the name.  If he or she wants to come forth and stand before our stern tribunal, he'd be a saint.    

If one looks at it in the most kindly manner, the guy who did it was actually more "professional" than those of us who so easily cut off a button within our first five instruments:  HE did NOT cut his button off, to his everlasting credit!    And he didn't really end up much worse off than the rest of us, since all he had to do was cut it off and do the required graft at the other end.

   

[Muswell]

2 hours ago, Will L said:

 HE did NOT cut his button off, to his everlasting credit!    And he didn't really end up much worse off than the rest of us, since all he had to do was cut it off and do the required graft at the other end.

   

Have you bugged my workshop?

[Will L]

 KNOWS ALL, SEES ALL