Prestochangeo Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 I recently came into possession of a violin whose maker label says: "Made in Mittenwald Modell Klotz fecit 1928 sub auspiciis Leo Aschauer" I'm just looking for information about this instrument, although it would be nice if someone pointed me into the direction of a seller. I know very little about violins, and haven't played one since I was 14, though trying to tell my grandmother this is impossible. This was given to me by said grandmother who got it from a friend because they all still think I play. Thanks in advance and sorry if I've just posted to the incorrect forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Aschauer was for many years the director of the violin making School in Mittenwald. One could suppose it was made by one (or several) of the apprentices there. I am not familiar with Mittenwald vm School Labels with any English language, so wonder if it was stuck in by an American wholesaler. I would be interested to know if it has a Mittenwald vm School stamp on the inside of the back (above the Label) it would look like a Christmas tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prestochangeo Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Is this the tree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan slobodkin Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Yes that is the Mittenwald school stamp. By the way if your granny has any other instruments to give away..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prestochangeo Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 I honestly have no need for a violin since I haven't played one in over a decade. Is this something I should sell or have restored and keep for future generations of orchestra dropouts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said: I am not familiar with Mittenwald vm School Labels with any English language, so wonder if it was stuck in by an American wholesaler. I would be interested to know if it has a Mittenwald vm School stamp on the inside of the back (above the Label) it would look like a Christmas tree Moennig & Son in Philadelphia sold "Aschauer" instruments. I had assumed the labels were inserted here, but am not sure that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan slobodkin Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Pretty nice advanced student fiddle. Take it to a good violin shop and ask what they would give for it. Retail price in perfect condition should be several thousand dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prestochangeo Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 It is definitely not pristine, we'll call it well loved. I'll take it to The Loft in Columbus, Ohio in a few days to see what they say. Thank you all for being so quick to respond and helpful. My mother would have had me take it to [generic second hand instrument retailer] so thank you for again for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vathek Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 what's the bow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prestochangeo Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 I'm not sure if this shows up well. I know as much about taking decent pics with an iPad as I do about violins. There seems to be mother of pearl inlay as well as a little button (or nub) on the very end. As you can see it haas been quite a long time since anyone has picked this up to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 I guess the OP will be very happy with the answers so far and may not object me adding another possible Aschauer instrument to his thread. Mine is labelled to be from the Workshop of (Leo) Aschauer 1951, no school tree, no other marks. I have doubts that the label is authetic. It is glued in a bit rough and there seem to be glue marks indicating the outline of a previous label mostly covered by this one. It would also be possible, that the glue marks are from a previous position of this label - it may have come lose and was re-glued. In any case it looks a bit dodgy. On the other hand it is a not-so-exciting workshop label and I thought they would not make typical targets for fakes. The violin has four corner blocks and the linings run right over them. Any observations are welcome and might save me a trip to my luthier - I live in the middle of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 It looks as though some American wholesaler (Moennig, if Jeffrey is right?) has been using up his Aschauer labels in junk (non-Mittenwald) cheap and nasty violins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Thanks, I appreciate the assessment that this is a cheap and nasty junk violin. I'll be happy with that. But I don't hink it has ever been to the US. I got in Germany and it now lives in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 There was a lot of stuff from elsewhere (i.e."junk") sold by the Mittenwald makers as their own, so I guess it was bought by Aschauer from behind the iron curtain (s. contraband) to sell it as a student instrument. Actually the label GEWA Mittenwald Adorf, what includes East and West, is found in VSO from the Far East as well. The OP violin gives another answer to ViodA's question reg. the Mittenwald school prioduction from the between the wars period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Guido said: Thanks, I appreciate the assessment that this is a cheap and nasty junk violin. I'll be happy with that. But I don't hink it has ever been to the US. I got in Germany and it now lives in Australia. I'm very sorry, this forum is normally rotten with Americans. If I ever see one with an upside-down Christmas tree, I will know what to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan slobodkin Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Jacob, The OP's instrument looks quite a bit better than the 1951. Am I wrong about that being more of an advanced student instrument than a VSO? I have seen other M'wald school made instruments that were really quite well made although stiff and lacking in style. Also had a Leo Aschauer viola that fit that description. Good solid craftsmanship but a bit heavy. I believe that one had the Christmas tree and was labeled in German. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 hours ago, jacobsaunders said: It looks as though some American wholesaler (Moennig, if Jeffrey is right?) has been using up his Aschauer labels in junk (non-Mittenwald) cheap and nasty violins The instruments I've seen that were sold through Moennig were similar-to-better in quality to the OP's instrument. I've not seen non-Mittenwald instruments that were sold by that firm with an "Aschauer" label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 36 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said: Jacob, The OP's instrument looks quite a bit better than the 1951. Am I wrong about that being more of an advanced student instrument than a VSO? I have seen other M'wald school made instruments that were really quite well made although stiff and lacking in style. Also had a Leo Aschauer viola that fit that description. Good solid craftsmanship but a bit heavy. I believe that one had the Christmas tree and was labeled in German. Just to clarify: Talking about the recent GEWA instruments I thought of VSOs, the OP is IMO a quite good Mittenwald school instruments, made while Aschauer looked over the shoulders of the apprentice (or drank a cup of coffee). If Guido's violins is junk or an average east european student instrument, from the 1940s, sufficient for an amateur player, depends from the point of view, or maybe your opinion about deceiving labels. BTW, seeing the "1" at the second violin, I think it isn't written in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, nathan slobodkin said: Jacob, The OP's instrument looks quite a bit better than the 1951. Am I wrong about that being more of an advanced student instrument than a VSO? I have seen other M'wald school made instruments that were really quite well made although stiff and lacking in style. Also had a Leo Aschauer viola that fit that description. Good solid craftsmanship but a bit heavy. I believe that one had the Christmas tree and was labeled in German. Dear Nathan, I would have thought that is is patently obvious that the 1951 labeled violin does not come from Mittenwald, the school there, or from Aschauer. The OP 1928 one, by contrast is thoroughly characteristic of the Mittenwald vm school of that period. Very much not a VSO, but the work of a meticulous apprentice. I do not know if you had your training in a school, or with an individual maker. If you were at a vm school though, you will know that there are normally students with a wide range of abilities, also those who have just started, and others in their 3rd year. When I first moved to Vienna in the 80's, I lived in the Zollergasse, on the corner of Mondscheingasse. In the basement of the neighbouring house in Mondscheingasse was the violin makers shop belonging to Herr Nowy. Herr Nowy, it seemed, spent much of the day standing on his doorstep, to make sure that nobody came into his workshop, which looked like a bomb had recently exploded. He let me in though, and his main theme when he spoke to me was, how he had learnt in Mittenwald alongside Mr. Weißhaar, who was now famous in California. I never met Weißhaar personally, but am pretty certain that he was a great deal more impressive. I must admit that I “inherited” a packet of Mittenwald labels from the estate of a Viennese vm many years ago, which have lived in my stamp album since, although no Aschauer ones. The Christmas tree stamp though would seem very reliable, and I would have serious doubts about a Mittemwald vm school violin without one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said: ... Herr Nowy, it seemed, spent much of the day standing on his doorstep, to make sure that nobody came into his workshop, which looked like a bomb had recently exploded. .. Now there's an interesting business model! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan slobodkin Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 On March 30, 2017 at 9:21 AM, jacobsaunders said: Dear Nathan, I would have thought that is is patently obvious that the 1951 labeled violin does not come from Mittenwald, the school there, or from Aschauer. The OP 1928 one, by contrast is thoroughly characteristic of the Mittenwald vm school of that period. Very much not a VSO, but the work of a meticulous apprentice. I do not know if you had your training in a school, or with an individual maker. If you were at a vm school though, you will know that there are normally students with a wide range of abilities, also those who have just started, and others in their 3rd year. When I first moved to Vienna in the 80's, I lived in the Zollergasse, on the corner of Mondscheingasse. In the basement of the neighbouring house in Mondscheingasse was the violin makers shop belonging to Herr Nowy. Herr Nowy, it seemed, spent much of the day standing on his doorstep, to make sure that nobody came into his workshop, which looked like a bomb had recently exploded. He let me in though, and his main theme when he spoke to me was, how he had learnt in Mittenwald alongside Mr. Weißhaar, who was now famous in California. I never met Weißhaar personally, but am pretty certain that he was a great deal more impressive. I must admit that I “inherited” a packet of Mittenwald labels from the estate of a Viennese vm many years ago, which have lived in my stamp album since, although no Aschauer ones. The Christmas tree stamp though would seem very reliable, and I would have serious doubts about a Mittemwald vm school violin without one. Thanks Jacob, I wasn't implying that the fiddle with the 1951 date was from Mittenwald just using the date to differentiate it from the OP's FYI my own training was done in what I think was the only real production shop in the US at the time. About 20 guys making about 500 instruments a year ranging from better grade student models to individually made gold medal winners. Great place to train. People from a number of different schools and countrys, strict discipline and great team spirit and pride in our work. I'd still be there today if I wasn't a country boy who prefers the woods to a big city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina1321 Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 Hello, I am. found the violin of Leo Aschauer of 1928 with the letters A and L in a circle above the label is it a master or is the work of the students worth buying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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