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Don Noon

Ready-made mold and templates from Int. Violin

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Sorry to be the guy to resurrect a post from the past, but did anyone ever standardize and make decent molds and templates?  I am looking to make my first violin and saw this thread before pulling the trigger on the International violin set.  Thanks

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If you are just star

9 hours ago, Navyasw02 said:

Sorry to be the guy to resurrect a post from the past, but did anyone ever standardize and make decent molds and templates?  I am looking to make my first violin and saw this thread before pulling the trigger on the International violin set.  Thanks

If you are just starting out, personally I'd only use the Strad form drawings as a reference. The hardest thing to get right (for me at least) is the corner shapes -- if you follow the stard froms accurately you'll wind up with an outline with corners that look tighter than what we see in finished instruments. Fortunately the Strad has some great posters with full size CT scans of the rib garland. You can trace it and use it for your template (correcting symmetry or not depending what is important for you. Although the CT is a bit fuzzy the Titan drawing is a great place to start -- it is a nice strad - not to big or too small. The other is the Huberman. 

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Is there any reliable Del Gesu outline available? I see the one form from Addie, but it does look a little rough and without any specifics about corners and such. I'm thinking about starting a generic del Gesu model and only have Heifetz and Kreisler Strad posters, and the Ole Bull project documentation. If anyone has good set of pictures and known numbers of nice one to share I would be willing to follow Addie's work and prepare some drawings according to them...

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5 hours ago, Urban Luthier said:

The Viewtemps has the rib outline included in the poster

I haven’t made the model, but have the poster. A really high quality poster of a great violin. Hmm, maybe a violin that a great violinist can make wonderful music with, depending on your perspective. It’s on my list. 

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Looks good as a source. Are the scrolls actual outline or just generic scroll with bunch of numbers?

What is the back length / stop of that one? Which del Gesus are the "short ones"?

 

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3 hours ago, HoGo said:

Looks good as a source. Are the scrolls actual outline or just generic scroll with bunch of numbers?

What is the back length / stop of that one? Which del Gesus are the "short ones"?

All of this will be on the poster. It is worth purchasing a couple of the strad posters - Titian, Huberman, Viewtemps, Brusilow are good ones with CT scans. The Dancla is a good poster also but the violin in HUGE.

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FWIW I did a pretty careful analysis of the Kreisler from the International Violin patterns, Biddulph DG book, Strad Poster, and Addie's outline. What I found was the Int. Violin patterns were pretty good if you want a slightly longer body and cleaned up outline. Addie's was the shortest. Addie posted that his outline might not be printed to scale. Everything in Addie's is OK except the top and bottom. Having seen the Kreisler in person the overhang is not that dramatic in those areas.

The archings kind of agree. The neck Int. Violin (Herdim) was off.

 

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Thanks Scordatura, I 've missed the Kreisler among Addies' drawings I was looking for del Gesu in the folder name.... I will not print it butwork with that directly in computer so no printing errors will be included. I found a pic of the Kreisler CT online so will check with that as well.

I also have the Kreisler Strad poster so will start there. Are the numbers and size of drawings acurate on the poster? I can try to create 3D model of that later. And Maybe the Vieuxtemps after that.

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1 hour ago, HoGo said:

Thanks Scordatura, I 've missed the Kreisler among Addies' drawings I was looking for del Gesu in the folder name.... I will not print it butwork with that directly in computer so no printing errors will be included. I found a pic of the Kreisler CT online so will check with that as well.

I also have the Kreisler Strad poster so will start there. Are the numbers and size of drawings acurate on the poster? I can try to create 3D model of that later. And Maybe the Vieuxtemps after that.

Yes the Strad poster is accurate. The only possible variations are in the arching vs. Biddulph and Int. Violin (Herdim). They are not that significant though. Could you share the Kreisler CT image? I found one but it is pretty low resolution. Also are you 3D modeling (Fusion 360)? I am also doing that but have not had time to further my Kreisler model. I have a way to go. I am also going to do the Vieuxtemps next. The Strad poster is on the way.

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The mould IS the instrument!! In other words,the function and appearance of the finished mould should reflect the makers' approach to the completion of the final instrument. Taking short-cuts in the mould making process can lead to taking short-cuts else where in the building process! Now I know this will bring up the inevitable comparison of skeleton moulds vs. full body moulds,but even a skeleton mould should be made carefully and with much thought to good craftsperson principles.

Ok, I have shot my dart!

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8 hours ago, violguy said:

The mould IS the instrument!! In other words,the function and appearance of the finished mould should reflect the makers' approach to the completion of the final instrument. Taking short-cuts in the mould making process can lead to taking short-cuts else where in the building process! Now I know this will bring up the inevitable comparison of skeleton moulds vs. full body moulds,but even a skeleton mould should be made carefully and with much thought to good craftsperson principles.

Ok, I have shot my dart!

More to the point, if you don't have the ability to make an accurate, workable mold, you might as well hang up your violin making aspirations now. 

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Another consideration is how you want to spend your time making your first violin.  I was in a similar situation deciding to make or buy a mold.  I have the ability to make a mold, but decided to buy the Strad 1715 Cremonese mold from IV. The mold has disadvantages that were mentioned at the beginning of the thread.  However, my goal wasn't to make a faithful reproduction, but simply to get started violin making. I have made two and am starting a third. I am also still trying to decide which mold to make for the next one.

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On 11/14/2019 at 5:14 AM, arglebargle said:

More to the point, if you don't have the ability to make an accurate, workable mold, you might as well hang up your violin making aspirations now. 

The fact that you have the ability doesn't you have to do it by hand or not buy ready made mould if it is considered good enough for your work. Not everyone creates his own distinctive model, actually it may be even hard to sell these days compared to favorite dG or Strad models.

You can spend your time on more valuable parts of violin making, just like most makers buy ready-made varnish or pre-shaped fingerboards.

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On 11/13/2019 at 4:10 PM, scordatura said:

Yes the Strad poster is accurate. The only possible variations are in the arching vs. Biddulph and Int. Violin (Herdim). They are not that significant though. Could you share the Kreisler CT image? I found one but it is pretty low resolution. Also are you 3D modeling (Fusion 360)? I am also doing that but have not had time to further my Kreisler model. I have a way to go. I am also going to do the Vieuxtemps next. The Strad poster is on the way.

I managed to scan the poster into computer and downloaded whole lot of good hi-resolution pictures (LOC and Tarisio) to work with. I don't have full res CT, just those you can find with Google. I have some experience with processing pics in Photoshop/ Iluustrator/Rhino to cross-check all sources and get decent results.

I'm working in Rhino, not Fusion360, I posted my mandolin work and some quick-and-dirty 3D mockups of violin here on Maestronet few months ago.

I wonder whether the dimensions of Kreisler on Tarisio are accurate - I remember my Strad poster measures a bit less (few mm in widths). There are some measurements in LOC pics as well. I will check that as well.

 

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