crookedfingers Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Hello there, I am thinking about buying this violin. It carries the label of a reputable late 19th century french maker, but a knowledge violin friend thought it to be a bit younger. What do you think? Any opinion much appreciated, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Allen Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Lol that bridge is on backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 The set-up is certainly very amateur ... It's really impossible to say about the violin without seeing straightforward photos of front and back, but it looks a bit questionable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 It looks like the ribs are coming apart in the corners, or else really poor work from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Allen Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 The rib mitres look fine to me, just black beading painted on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 The rib mitres are one of the things giving me pause for thought. The label gives the name of a reputable late 19th century French maker. So we would expect the ribs to be finished very precisely, and for the inking to neatly cover the whole width of the exposed rib (the violin being built on an outside mold and the hidden rib being feathered into the exposed rib which is cut square). Here we have a mishmash of rib joints, some thin some thick, and they aren't vertical enough for a fine French maker who would use inking. What's the name in the violin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crookedfingers Posted March 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Thank you so much for the feedback! Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of the back. Here is the front. Here are images I found of a violin by the purported maker. and the side: and here again is my amateur photo of the violin of interest, same angle: Martin, I will PM you the name of the maker. Didn't mean to be mysterious but I imagine once I post it on the forum it can be easily traced back to the shop this is being consigned and I don't want them to be shed in negative light associated with the "amateur setup"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 The purfling appears to be of the "narrow white" variety, which suggests we have bratwurst dressed as fois gras, to paraphrase Martin's favourite saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadiravius Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 I guess the 'Hills' appointments feel a bit sacrilegious if it's a french instrument ... Painted scroll edges but not on the F-Holes ? Probably just me there as I'm used to seeing both together ... then again ... I'm sure many here would disagree. Overall the scroll doesn't look familiar to me for a 19th century french fiddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 To quote Addie paraphrasing Martin: It looks like "bratwurst dressed as foie gras" to me, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I.e. Jacquot is unlikely to have bought his purfling from Markneukirchen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Foie gras... Thanks for catching my poor spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Well the two violins are not by the same maker, yet the b/w violin is definitely French. Hope that helps ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, martin swan said: Well the two violins are not by the same maker, yet the b/w violin is definitely French. Hope that helps ... http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0157808 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Nice! The main thing to note with the violin from the Philharmonie is the way the purfling travels towards the c bouts in the corners - this is a very specific piece of French style. The OP instrument by contrast has purfling which sits in the middle of the corners. And as Addie has pointed out, it looks like mass produced purfling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadiravius Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 A surviving Charles Jacquot violin ? You owe it to yourself to send pics to Tarisio or to speak to an expert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguntde Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 The scroll looks very French, particularly from the back, the way the f-holes are cut too (vertical cut with a knife, not in a right angle to the slant of the surface of the top). Most French violins I have seen have relatively high linings and more square shaped blocks on top on bottom. The edge work and purfling doesn't make sense at all, as Martin pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRyan Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 On 3/12/2017 at 8:50 PM, martin swan said: Nice! The main thing to note with the violin from the Philharmonie is the way the purfling travels towards the c bouts in the corners - this is a very specific piece of French style. The OP instrument by contrast has purfling which sits in the middle of the corners. And as Addie has pointed out, it looks like mass produced purfling. When you say that the purfling travels towards the c-bouts in the corners, do you mean that the purfling comes closer to the edge around the corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 57 minutes ago, JRyn said: When you say that the purfling travels towards the c-bouts in the corners, do you mean that the purfling comes closer to the edge around the corners? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crookedfingers Posted March 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 Thank you all for your response and sharing your knowledge! Back to the instrument--the price is quite a bit below the auction prices for the purported maker, but substantially more than a regular trade instrument. The same seller has another instrument, priced similarly, from another well-known French maker, which makes me wonder if this is kind of his thing: https://t2-auctions.com/auctions/lot/?csid=2198568960&cpid=3429826560&filter_key=a455a59e11acfbe87c1fe41a6b4cee8f&sCategory_ID=36 https://t2-auctions.com/auctions/lot/?csid=2198568960&cpid=3429826560&filter_key=a455a59e11acfbe87c1fe41a6b4cee8f&sCategory_ID=36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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