help identifying violin era

[1tinker]

A friend inherited the violin in the attached photos as well as an autobiography from his father . His father was a reporter for the Stars and Stripes , the U.S. army newspaper ,as well as being the court artist during the Nuremberg trials. In his autobiography he mentions befriending a czech family while in Europe who gifted him with a family treasure when he was reassigned. The gift was a violin, one of the few little treasures the family was able to hide from the Nazis. We are interested to know if the violin in the photos could be the one he refers to.

It's in very nice condition and we guess it must have been refinished at some point as it appears that some stain dripped on the label. The label says:

STAATLICHE FACHSCHULE

FURGEICENBAU

MITTENWALD  

There appears to be a date hand written after Mittenwald. It's partially obscured by the stain but looks like 1934. There is also printing on the scroll which appears to be " AUS 16 or 76." 

My frend is very interested to know if this could be the same violin. If so it will be kept as a family treasure. We would appreciate some advice on where and how we may discover it's history or hopefully someone who reads this will know.

 Thank you

Jess

 

[jacobsaunders]

One gets pretty sick of the „violin hidden from the Nazis“ crap. It is an apprentice fiddle from the violin making School in Mittenwald. If he was in Germany back then, he would have been able to buy this more or less brand new.

 

[Rue]

Just out of interest...were the Nazis ever interested in confiscating inexpensive student instruments? I can't quite see it. ..

[1tinker]

My friend who just lost his father  wanted to have something special to remember him by. Just curious to know if this story was possibly true. Didn't seem like a big thing to ask of others who share an interest in the history of violins. Who else to ask other than those who may know. Thanks for your interesting, kind and informative replies gentlemen. It's a pleasure to to see the willingness of such knowledgible persons  to share their information so others may learn as well.

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by 1tinker
for the good .

[Violadamore]

27 minutes ago, Rue said:

Just out of interest...were the Nazis ever interested in confiscating inexpensive student instruments? I can't quite see it. ..

Yup, looks to me much more like something you'd have to hide from the Soviets.

[Violadamore]

2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

One gets pretty sick of the „violin hidden from the Nazis“ crap. It is an apprentice fiddle from the violin making School in Mittenwald. If he was in Germany back then, he would have been able to buy this more or less brand new.

 

And for a pack of cigarettes and 2 cans of Spam.

[Ganymede Piggot]

Sounds like it was made by Nazis, not hidden from Nazis.

[Addie]

During the period 1933-1945, not all Germans were Nazis, and not all Nazis were German.  Those who were taught history may recall that the movement gained a foothold in the United States in the '30's.  

[Ganymede Piggot]

In your heart of hearts you know couldn't be more Nazi if it had a swastika on it.

[Addie]

3 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

In your heart of hearts you know couldn't be more Nazi if it had a swastika on it.

I my heart of hearts, I know this doesn't warrant a response... 

[Ganymede Piggot]

Too bad he brought back a Nazi violin instead of a fascist one.

 

[J-G]

The responses here to an honest query seem needlessly nasty. Question (I think) is whether this violin could have been given to an American just after the war. The fact he could have bought such a violin hardly answers that question. Nor does the fact it was likely built during the Nazi era. 

Can anyone interpret the symbols on the scroll?

[Rue]

1 hour ago, 1tinker said:

My friend who just lost his father  wanted to have something special to remember him by. Just curious to know if this story was possibly true. Didn't seem like a big thing to ask of others who share an interest in the history of violins. Who else to ask other than those who may know. Thanks for your interesting, kind and informative replies gentlemen. It's a pleasure to to see the willingness of such knowledgible persons  to share their information so others may learn as well.

 

It is still a keepsake and it can still be a cherished family treasure. Nothing changes that reality - unless you only value an item as such  if it has greater monetary value.

I am not sure why this is upsetting. I have a couple of books of poetry that were important to my mom. They have no value.. but they are cherished.

 

[1tinker]

Yes thank you Addie but I am quite aware that Few Germans were Nazis and I merely mention them because it was a part of the story we were told. I really don't understand all the strange responses I'm getting. I certainly wasn't making judgements about anyones race, nationality or beliefs . I was merely asking if the violin in the photos could have been made in that era and if anyone could enlighten us to it's possible history.

I just joined this site and I thought that it's purpose was to share information . I can't believe that my post could have been misconstrued to seem otherwise and I have to say that the responses I received were more than a little disappointing and not at all what I expected from this site.

I have no further interest in being a member. 

[Violadamore]

13 minutes ago, J-G said:

The responses here to an honest query seem needlessly nasty. Question (I think) is whether this violin could have been given to an American just after the war. The fact he could have bought such a violin hardly answers that question. Nor does the fact it was likely built during the Nazi era. 

Can anyone interpret the symbols on the scroll?

Some of us may be questioning the honesty of the query.  The violin looks very well-preserved, and I can tell you for a fact that the Chinese are geniuses at faking markings on "war-relics".  More pictures would be nice. 

[Addie]

The time and place of manufacture having been established, I can only add that it probably was not refinished.  And before the topic goes completely off the rails and becomes truly offensive, I suggest the original poster run like Forrest Gump.  Sorry.  

[Ganymede Piggot]

44 minutes ago, Rue said:

I have a couple of books of poetry that were important to my mom. They have no value.. but they are cherished.

I have my Dad's fishing rod and shot glass.  Eh, some ppl can't take a joke.

Ok, what you need is more specific than you can get here.  You need to find out when that label was used -- some approximate date or a range.  The best way to do that would be to send off emails with pictures to violin shops in Mittenwald, Germany and they might be able to help.  The label translates to State School For Violin Making Mittenwald.    Probably not a bad violin.  Made by serious ppl learning a serious craft I would say.  The number is 16, not 76.  Eurotrash put crossbars on their sevens.

What is the rest of the story?  Why do you think this could be the violin and not know that it is?  Did he have several violins?  Did it possibly not belong to him at all somehow?

 

[franciscus]

3 hours ago, J-G said:

Can anyone interpret the symbols on the scroll?

I see "AHS" there, which is not something unusual. The label seems oold enough - traditional method of printing, as far as I can see, the lead letters stacked in the letterpress. The only one thing that confused me is "FUR", instead of "FÜR".

[Blank face]

14 minutes ago, franciscus said:

I see "AHS" there, which is not something unusual.

I'd like to disagree, slightly It looks like "AMS" and appears to be an inventory brand, possibly "Ansbacher MusikSchule (no.) 16".

Just as Jacob wrote, it is very unlikely that this german violin from the 30s has anything to do with czech Nazi victims or was in any way kept hidden as a "family treasure". As a former property of some institution it was available for nearly nothing in the after war period as a souvenir, and many of this kind were later embellished with fancy myths.. I can't see why such simple facts should be offending.

[Dwight Brown]

Hey Guys,

 

The OP is new.  We were all new in many places during our lives.  If a certain kind of question seems to be irritating or it has got on your last good nerve I understand and I am sympathetic. (I teach middle school! :-)  I would like to think we would have a reputation here of kindness and support for all who happen by.  I know that I just hacked off a bunch of you and you can curse me all you want.

 

DLB

 

[Trenchworker]

Honesty (sometimes brutal, mostly not) is a hallmark of this site.  To Tinker1, step away, take a deep breath, or shed a few tears, then come back.  You'll be glad you did, and when you are no longer a "newbie", remember your first time and be gentle with the next innocent soul.

[Violadamore]

10 hours ago, 1tinker said:

Yes thank you Addie but I am quite aware that Few Germans were Nazis and I merely mention them because it was a part of the story we were told. I really don't understand all the strange responses I'm getting. I certainly wasn't making judgements about anyones race, nationality or beliefs . I was merely asking if the violin in the photos could have been made in that era and if anyone could enlighten us to it's possible history.

I just joined this site and I thought that it's purpose was to share information . I can't believe that my post could have been misconstrued to seem otherwise and I have to say that the responses I received were more than a little disappointing and not at all what I expected from this site.

I have no further interest in being a member. 

Sorry if the responses were unkind.  Please consider the following:

1.  Jacob S. is our resident curmudgeon.  We've all been bitten by Jacob, rub some ointment on it, and continue.

2.  Merkel is our resident troll.  Enough said.

3.  I'm still a little suspicious, as are some others, that the (very scanty and to the one point only) violin pictures look so new and shiny, and have such a romantic and unprovable story attached..  We've had a number of people post "interesting" things merely to raise interest in questionable auction or sale offerings that they own on other venues.  If I may have been hasty in my assessment, I'm very sorry for any offense given. 

If the violin is truly as stated, you now know where and when it came from.

[Ganymede Piggot]

2 hours ago, Violadamore said:

2.  Merkel is our resident troll.  Enough said.

Your favorite trollee maybe, but I enjoy it, 

[1tinker]

I want to thank the people who made an attempt at getting this conversation back in line and provide some useful information. After I received the first few astonishing and disappointing responses I continued my search on another forum. Within a couple hours I received several courteous responses with pertinent and useful information as well as an invitation to ask more questions and encouragement to continue my search. Just what I expected from Maestronet.

I see that as a newbie my posts were reviewed before publishing. May I suggest that the moderators here also review responses by established members, at least those who are known to be less than civil. It may eliminate the vitriolic responces filled with juvenile and half-witted attempts at humor and void of any useful or pertinent information. A complete waste of time of those seriously looking for information and some enjoyment  interacting with those of a shared interest.

Let,s spend no more time on this. I will move on to a more inviting forum. I wish good luck to all.

Tinker

[Jeffrey Holmes]

5 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

Hey Guys,

The OP is new.  We were all new in many places during our lives.  If a certain kind of question seems to be irritating or it has got on your last good nerve I understand and I am sympathetic. (I teach middle school! :-)  I would like to think we would have a reputation here of kindness and support for all who happen by.  I know that I just hacked off a bunch of you and you can curse me all you want.

You have never hacked me off, Dwight!

Tinker; Hope that you at least got the information you came for.  Good luck to you as well.