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Another Mittenwald?


jandepora

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Beside the inside photos I had some diagonal and partial views of belly, scroll and bottom only, but I agree, that it looks now like "Verleger".

It's in my experience very tricky to date this stuff. The dark brown varnish over deep yellow ground, as well as the broad and somehow clumsy scroll could put it a bit earlier, possibly a bit before 1850, but you never know.

Interesting is the inner stripe, now it looks more like printed paper, not handwritten parchment.

 

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I have doubts about the bassbar, do you change it and make a new one? Is very tall, and it is straight with the top grain.

Jacob, what do you expect about the handwritting in the pegbox?

The inner work look handmade and the top thickness is very good, from 2,5 to 4 mm.

Another thing I want to know is about the pegs holes. They are not put like modern ones; the g and e are too close and a and d are too close both and too far betwen them.... ( sorry my english). When this practice disappear? When it becomes like the modern ones? Could it be a characteristic to know the age of a violin?

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51 minutes ago, Richf said:

Would one expect a Verleger piece to have the linings cut into the corner blocks?

According to Jacob S:

"Mittenwald corner blocks cover about twice as much upper/lower rib as c bout rib and the invariably pine linings of the c bout are let into the corner blocks with a point."

See:

 

 

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These violins (Celli etc.) were made in “Verlag” (publisher) system. The dealer had one person who carved scrolls, another who made bodies, a third who put stuff together, a fourth who varnished and a fifth who did set up, or whoever he could get hold of when he needed them. The Mittenwald artisans were (mostly in contrast to the Vogtländische/Egerländischer colleagues) to a large part , part time violin makers, who also lived from agriculture and tourism. The scrolls were often dated (last two numbers of the year) and signed with initials inside the peg box in black ink. One can often find these signatures under 100 years worth of dust and dirt still there, since you asked after the age. As often as not, these peg box dates are 5 or 8 years earlier than any label that might have got stuck in, so I imagine the “Verleger” had boxes full of scrolls in his shed ready for whenever he might need one. It is this manufacturing system that makes it tedious when some determined customer insists on knowing the Christian and surname of “the maker”, and his exact biography.

 

In your shoes, I would leave the peg holes alone, unless you can't find any pegs that are big enough.

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From Jacob's many contributions here, I thought I understood the Verlag system.  But I guess I had thought of the Mittenwald feature of ribs set into corner blocks was perhaps too time-consuming for that system and, hence, would be a feature to look for on higher-quality instruments from Mittenwald.  Not so?

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1 hour ago, jandepora said:

Now, revising the case, I found 2 bridges that comes with the violin. One is stamped ALFRED E. CHANOT ... Could it be an English violin from A.E. Chanot?

About the bassbar, What do you think I must  do?

What on earth disturbs you about the bass bar? Don't forget that the meaning of life is to repair violins (the parts that are broken), not to “improve” them.:)

 

You could PM Kev Chanot if he would like the Chanot bridge for his Chanot collection

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7 minutes ago, Richf said:

From Jacob's many contributions here, I thought I understood the Verlag system.  But I guess I had thought of the Mittenwald feature of ribs set into corner blocks was perhaps too time-consuming for that system and, hence, would be a feature to look for on higher-quality instruments from Mittenwald.  Not so?

Even really grotty ¼ Mittenwald violins with painted purfling have the linings let into the blocks with a point, and the scroll fluted to the bitter end. "Handwerksehre" or something.

.

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4 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

What on earth disturbs you about the bass bar? Don't forget that the meaning of life is to repair violins (the parts that are broken), not to “improve” them.:)

 

You could PM Kev Chanot if he would like the Chanot bridge for his Chanot collection

As always giving the best advice. I let the bass bar.

The peg box holes are other thing...

I can not find the inscription in the pegbox... I clean the zone and nothing, it has no marks or ink or pencil under the varnish. Could it mean something?

 

 

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10 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

These violins (Celli etc.) were made in “Verlag” (publisher) system. The dealer had one person who carved scrolls, another who made bodies, a third who put stuff together, a fourth who varnished and a fifth who did set up, or whoever he could get hold of when he needed them. The Mittenwald artisans were (mostly in contrast to the Vogtländische/Egerländischer colleagues) to a large part , part time violin makers, who also lived from agriculture and tourism. The scrolls were often dated (last two numbers of the year) and signed with initials inside the peg box in black ink. One can often find these signatures under 100 years worth of dust and dirt still there, since you asked after the age. As often as not, these peg box dates are 5 or 8 years earlier than any label that might have got stuck in, so I imagine the “Verleger” had boxes full of scrolls in his shed ready for whenever he might need one. It is this manufacturing system that makes it tedious when some determined customer insists on knowing the Christian and surname of “the maker”, and his exact biography.

 

In your shoes, I would leave the peg holes alone, unless you can't find any pegs that are big enough.

Now this is quite interesting, I never knew to check inside the peg box for date or initials on these "Verleger".  I pulled out an old Mittenwald that JS had suggested was 1830's when he looked at pics several months back.  Sure enough, I read 31 inside the peg box!  Amazed once again....  When I get better pictures I'll post them.

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Many violins have peg holes in places that I would not personally chose as the optimum position. However, if everyone bushed peg holes, and drilled new ones in the “proper” place, every time they got their sticky fingers on a violin, few fiddles would have much peg box left.

 

BTW: the Gagliano family, for instance are noted for having the pegs in two close together “pairs” like this, with a big gap between the “E” and “D” peg hole. I presume that this was originally to make it easier for customers with bratwurst fingers to tune, which then became a habit or tradition. I would consider it a shame if some busy-body “know-it-better” would obliterate this feature for no good reason. Not that I would recognise any other similarity between your fiddle and a Gagliano, but just an example of the unwelcome “Violin-Improver”

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