Sign in to follow this  
Jim Bress

Neck/scroll template material

Recommended Posts

I've been think about scrolls lately as I'm plodding my way through my #2 build.  For #1 I just glued a paper template onto the neck block.  I know a lot of people do that and it's pretty easy, but I would like to make a permanent template.  

What kind of material and thickness would be best for making neck/scroll template for clamping onto the neck block?

Is there a consensus on whether a 1mm drop from the fingerboard gluing surface to the peg box is preferred?   

The model that I'm basing my violin on is the Strad Titian.  However, it is far from a copy so I feel comfortable using a different models scroll especially if the length of the peg box happens to be a better (more functional) length.  Maybe they're all about the same so it doesn't matter.  Are some Strad scrolls generally recognized as nicer than others?  Your opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of glue, I printed my patterns on card stock, cut them out, and pinned them to the neck blank with push pins.  I used another push pin to prick out the volute.  Trace with a sharp pencil.  I did make  wooden pattern using rib stock, but never used it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jim,

I use aluminum sheet that is .59mm thick. Super easy to cut and file. The actual product is  Chemetal which is a metal laminate product, I have access to lots of scrap from my day job. I happen to be working on a scroll today too. 

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jim, good luck on #2!  I've made a few more durable templates out of wood & perspex, and then used the drilled holes to mark out the scroll.  I actually switched recently to using simple thick acetate templates for the outline, and then glued on paper scroll templates.  The acetate is nice, you can just tape it down, cut it most of the way through with an x-acto, and then it breaks out clean.  I'm using the .029" thick stuff.

The 1mm ledge is how I was taught, I think it's a pretty standard measurement.

I've been making these little sheets, that I make the outline, and then can cut out a few scrolls from each sheet. gdg lord wilton neck and scroll templates a4.pdf

58ab47e682192_acetateandpaperscrolltemplates.jpg.b3121d287333277a48794e9f59847a4e.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying out different materials.  I just quickly made a template from a printout from the J & C book out of x-ray film.  Is it bad that I have a lot of x-ray film on hand? :o:D  This stuff is tough and thin. Just over .02 mm.  Unfortunately while it cuts well it doesn't want to be shaped and my knife work doesn't make nice smooth curves.

Adddie, What pound card stock are you using?

Mike, That Chemetal looks like nice stuff to use.  Googling (is that a verb) it, Chemetal seams like a specialty product.  Is it readily available.  I might be able to find thin aluminum sheets at Home Depot.

Matthew, I've heard mention of  acetate  sheets before, but have never seen the stuff (ok I haven't really looked).  Is this an art store item?

Thanks guys,

Jim 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Michael K. said:

Template by Giuseppe Ornati

Ornatd.jpg

That's cool!  I don't think I'll find that material at the hardware store. :D  Any opinions on a favorite Strad scroll?

-Jim  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else use brass the thickness of card stock? My husband uses one of those teeny Xacto drills after going around the volute with an awl. Then he cuts it out with a jewellers saw and goes at it with files and sandpaper. They look pretty cool. He has said that they take an hour to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, not telling said:

Anyone else use brass the thickness of card stock? My husband uses one of those teeny Xacto drills after going around the volute with an awl. Then he cuts it out with a jewellers saw and goes at it with files and sandpaper. They look pretty cool. He has said that they take an hour to make.

Kind of what I was originally thinking of.  I've seen picture of brass templates someplace, but don't remember where.  I think the metal templates look great.  Brass and aluminum are soft and easy to work with, but then you have metal shavings your files.  Fine if you have dedicated metal files but worrisome if all your decent files are for wood. On the plus side they're completely stable and won't warp.  Pictures?

-JIm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the Betts scroll.  I did a massive Stradivari violin scroll comparison a few years go.  Maybe some kind hearted soul can locate that again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Addie said:

Here it is, Addie.

Cool, thanks.

 

Yes, great work as usual. I was studying it earlier and will be looking at it again tomorrow when I have more time. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer aluminum sheets  0.7 / 0.8 mm thick for my template, or light cardboard as Addie (or Stradivari) if they are not frequently used.

In the case of cardboard template I have in any case the neck template made of aluminum, such as that for the neck graft, and only the scroll template made of paper.

For fingerboard drop (that I call the neck step) I use 0.75 mm for violin, 1.3 mm for viola and 3.0 mm for cello.

But these are intended to have sufficient room for planing any fingerboard lateral tilts, are not necessarily the final measures that depend on several factors.
For example in the violin I usually make a tilt of 0.4 / 0.5 mm, so the final measure is probably very similar to that of Torbjorn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

I prefer aluminum sheets  0.7 / 0.8 mm thick for my template, or light cardboard as Addie (or Stradivari) if they are not frequently used.

In the case of cardboard template I have in any case the neck template made of aluminum, such as that for the neck graft, and only the scroll template made of paper.

For fingerboard drop (that I call the neck step) I use 0.75 mm for violin, 1.3 mm for viola and 3.0 mm for cello.

But these are intended to have sufficient room for planing any fingerboard lateral tilts, are not necessarily the final measures that depend on several factors.
 
For example in the violin I usually make a tilt of 0.4 / 0.5 mm, so the final measure is probably very similar to that of Torbjorn.

Thanks Davide, that's good information.  At my level I'm not thinking about neck tilt yet.  The neck step will also let me correct a little bit if I accidentally put a lateral tilt in (like my #1 has).  I didn't use a neck step for #1, so it is what it is.  The players that have test driven it for me haven't noticed.

-Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Nick Allen said:

I have one thing to say. Polycarbonate. Planes like a dream and is real easy to file and sand. Super tough. Scratches easily, but not really a big deal.

I did polycarbonate for my form template.  Super tough is right.  I think softer plexiglass would be better (easier) to shape.  The nice thing is the transparency for tracing over a picture.  I found a thin piece in the shop.  I have no idea where it came from.  I didn't measure it but it's probably about 1mm thick.  I outlined a paper template with a fine point permanent marker last night.  I'll check tonight if it still just rubs off or if it stays once it's had time to dry.  I'd rather draw a line than scribe it.  Easier erase my mistakes.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jim Bress said:

Thanks Davide, that's good information.  At my level I'm not thinking about neck tilt yet.  The neck step will also let me correct a little bit if I accidentally put a lateral tilt in (like my #1 has).  I didn't use a neck step for #1, so it is what it is.  The players that have test driven it for me haven't noticed.

-Jim

Neck tilt is not really necessary, unless you have to deal with low archings or very wide C bouts (the sum of the two makes it really necessary...)

 

But, as you noticed, the neck step is very useful to be able to plane the neck for corrections or for future replacement of the fingerboard or for slight neck reset.

 
Or to make a lateral tilt if the player likes it.....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim,

I use either thin metal sheet about 0.3 mm or sometimes formica sheeting which judging from the fact that my spell check Is underlining it in red may be hard to find now. Aluminum, zinc or copper can both be shaved with your second best knife and then filed. Thicker stuff is some times less accurate as it has to be filed exactly square. I generally have settled on copper roof flashing because it's easy to find and stiff enough not to deform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I save up scraps of clear plastic from packaging.  Some of it is pretty thick.  That way I can scribe patterns on it easily from posters, and just poke holes in it with something pointy instead of drilling.  I also have some sheet aluminum for mold and plate templates, if I think I'm going to make more than one instrument from that pattern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone, I'm going to HD on the way home from work to look at materials.  Nate, great point about finding a balance between thick enough to not easily kink while being thin enough so that squareness is not an issue. 

Another question: Using the 15-25-15 rule for peg spacing, is there a desired distance from the G peg and the start of the peg box, and the A peg to the end of the peg box?  Goals are esthetics, ergonomics for players, and function. I used the J & C template for #1 and was told my G peg was a little too close to the beginning of the peg box (FB side).

Thanks,

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.