Wilgeo

Started on my violin cradle

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Using Davide's plans I've started on my violin cradle. Using 5/4 locally sourced Walnut.

MAN...gouging walnut is NO JOKE. I've practiced on spruce, and probably could have done a plate non-stop. Not so with the walnut.

Much like other things, I'm guessing your body gets used to doing it...at least that's what I keep telling myself. LOL 

I figure this is a great way to get some experience before actually working on my tonewood, and I need it for the process anyways.

0107171350.jpg

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Those handles are really uncomfortable for gouging large areas. I use a gouge like that but have put on a 50cm long handle so as to put some body weight behind it. Also across the grain is generally more efficient.

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2 hours ago, Wilgeo said:

Using Davide's plans I've started on my violin cradle. Using 5/4 locally sourced Walnut.

MAN...gouging walnut is NO JOKE. I've practiced on spruce, and probably could have done a plate non-stop. Not so with the walnut.

Much like other things, I'm guessing your body gets used to doing it...at least that's what I keep telling myself. LOL 

I figure this is a great way to get some experience before actually working on my tonewood, and I need it for the process anyways.

 

Really, walnut?

Try something like 6/4 or 8/4 Bass wood.   Not only is it a pleasure you would be done by now ;)

Save your walnut for your inside form.

 

 

IMG_5011_2.jpg

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41 minutes ago, Mark Caudle said:

Those handles are really uncomfortable for gouging large areas. I use a gouge like that but have put on a 50cm long handle so as to put some body weight behind it. Also across the grain is generally more efficient.

REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE. I'll have to give that a shot. Thanks for the tip!

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11 minutes ago, Wee B. Bridges said:

Really, walnut?

Try something like 6/4 or 8/4 Bass wood.   Not only is it a pleasure you would be done by now ;)

Save your walnut for your inside form.

 

 

IMG_5011_2.jpg

That's what he suggested to use. /shrug

No biggie. Too late to go back now. At least it will LOOK beautiful.

One question about grading out the cradle. I know it has to be a big deeper than a violin plate for using cloth in between the plate and the cradle...but I've yet to make a plate, so I'm not really sure how deep I should go for the cradle. Any tips?

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28 minutes ago, Wilgeo said:

That's what he suggested to use. /shrug

No biggie. Too late to go back now. At least it will LOOK beautiful.

One question about grading out the cradle. I know it has to be a big deeper than a violin plate for using cloth in between the plate and the cradle...but I've yet to make a plate, so I'm not really sure how deep I should go for the cradle. Any tips?

Mmmm..... actually in my video I say that I used mahogany and that other hardwoods can be used.

You took too literally the word hardwoods......:)Mahogany is soft enough and easy to cut if you work it in the right directions.

For the hollowing is best to have a finished plate and adapt the cradle to the arching, surely easier and faster than make a "reverse" arching in the cradle using templates and others measuring devices.

However you can only rough out the hollowing and move forward with the construction of the cradle, but in the end you will need to make an arching to see if it fits.

In any case a walnut cradle will be beautiful, and will be worth the effort.

 

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8 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:

Mmmm..... actually in my video I say that I used mahogany and that other hardwoods can be used.

You took too literally the word hardwoods......:)Mahogany is soft enough and easy to cut if you work it in the right directions.

For the hollowing is best to have a finished plate and adapt the cradle to the arching, surely easier and faster than make a "reverse" arching in the cradle using templates and others measuring devices. 

However, you can only rough out the hollowing and move forward with the construction of the cradle, but in the end you will need to make an arching to see if it fits.

 

Darn. Not sure where I read that. I've got one of those plastic curve things you used in one of your videos, and my own violin, so I'll have to use that I guess.

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2 minutes ago, Wilgeo said:

Darn. Not sure where I read that. I've got one of those plastic curve things you used in one of your videos, and my own violin, so I'll have to use that I guess.

If you have a drill press a good sistem is to draw the isolines of your arching and drill holes at the various depths on the isolines as a guide for roughing.

  But it's not a quick thing ......

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You could use some printing paper cut into strips. On one side use some crayon or soft pencil, chalk to cover an area , .Now you can take the violin and sandwich the paper "dirty" side toward the cradle and pull the paper around , it will leave close marks to where you need to pull more out. 

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Strad's cradle was poplar.  I used inverted G form arching templates for my copy of his cradle.  I posted a pattern for the cradle a few years back.

 

My Stradivari Cradle.jpg

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2 hours ago, Mark Caudle said:

Those handles are really uncomfortable for gouging large areas. I use a gouge like that but have put on a 50cm long handle so as to put some body weight behind it. Also across the grain is generally more efficient.

Hi Mark - I lasted 1 four hour session with the original handle. By the following week I had made a longer, more ergonomic handle from Myrtle and based on a handle made by Michael Darnton.

After discovering how painless it was to use my ball-ended handle - other students asked if I could possibly... Inge's was No 2 - also Myrtle - after that I started using Acacia wood - rescuing the best pieces from ending up in the fireplace.

Jim Bress improved on my efforts - maybe he'll put up a picture of his handle.

cheers edi

cellomaking - chisel Inge - 2007 may 06.jpg

Cellomaking - chisel edi #1.jpg

cellomaking - chisel #8 Mk2 90% 2008dec14.jpg

cellomaking - chisel #6 2008apr03.jpg

cellomaking - chisel #4 - 2007 jun 07.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Addie said:

Strad's cradle was poplar.  I used inverted G form arching templates for my copy of his cradle.  I posted a pattern for the cradle a few years back.

 

My Stradivari Cradle.jpg

Just like Tony's. :)

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I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. /sigh

 

My arms are killing me. Edi those are beautiful. I have no lathe. So I'm stuck with the gouges the way they are I'm afraid. On the flip side, I'll have popeye forearms in no time. Oh, and also disabled.

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24 minutes ago, Addie said:

Pattern, and an image showing reversed arching templates.  If you want the full arching template set to print out, let me know (and A4 or Letter).  The cradle pattern is in tow halves, sized for U.S. Letter.  Do not scale the printing.

 

Cradle Pattern-upper.pdf

Cradle arching.jpg

Cradle Pattern-lower.pdf

Which of these would I use? I didn't think you needed TWO cradles. Thought you only need one, and it could be used for the top and bottom plates.

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51 minutes ago, Wilgeo said:

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. /sigh

 

My arms are killing me. Edi those are beautiful. I have no lathe. So I'm stuck with the gouges the way they are I'm afraid. On the flip side, I'll have popeye forearms in no time. Oh, and also disabled.

No need for a lathe, or for makin' your working tools purdy.

Here's the roughing gouge I've been using for about 35 years now. Castoff brass tubing, with a dowel epoxied in at one end and drilled to hold the gouge tang. Tubing was then fiilled using melted lead, because the weight provides inertia to cruise through the tough spots which might otherwise bring you to a stop.

You can't see the end under my hand, but it's a piece of wood 75mm wide, slightly rounded, but nothing close to a ball end. Distributes the force on the hand much better than a smaller end with a tighter radius.

Hand is braced against the chest, The work is done with the legs.

 

 

025reduced.jpg

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14 minutes ago, Wilgeo said:

That a 1" dowel David?

OD of the brass tubing is 1.1 inches, so probably. Epoxy is a pretty good gap filler, so a good fit isn't critical.

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4 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

OD of the brass tubing is 1.1 inches, so probably. Epoxy is a pretty good gap filler, so a good fit isn't critical.

You're not epoxying the gouge into the dowel are you??? Or do you just mean you epoxied the brass pipe to the dowel?

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1 hour ago, edi malinaric said:

Hi Mark - I lasted 1 four hour session with the original handle. By the following week I had made a longer, more ergonomic handle from Myrtle and based on a handle made by Michael Darnton.

After discovering how painless it was to use my ball-ended handle - other students asked if I could possibly... Inge's was No 2 - also Myrtle - after that I started using Acacia wood

cellomaking - chisel #8 Mk2 90% 2008dec14.jpg

 

 

Very nice Edi.

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I made myself a rim cradle. A whole lot easier. Less hogging out. Although one is more at risk to damage a top when scooping out the inside. 

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3 hours ago, Wilgeo said:

Which of these would I use? I didn't think you needed TWO cradles. Thought you only need one, and it could be used for the top and bottom plates.

Pictured are:

upper bout, widest, upper bout, narrowest, c-bouts narrowest, lower bout narrowest, lower bout, widest.

not pictured: long arch.

The pattern (2 PDFs) needs to be printed out and fitted together to make a full size pattern.

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7 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

I made myself a rim cradle. A whole lot easier. Less hogging out. Although one is more at risk to damage a top when scooping out the inside. 

Me too.  I have demountable cork-lined profiles which fit along the centre-line, accurately follow the arching and support the .plate

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9 hours ago, Wilgeo said:

You're not epoxying the gouge into the dowel are you??? Or do you just mean you epoxied the brass pipe to the dowel?

The short section of wooden dowel is epoxied to the inside of the tubing. The gouge tang is a press fit into the wooden portion, as with most gouges. I guess there'd be little downside to gluing it in though, if one wanted to.

Pipe doesn't need to be brass, just about anything would do....   an old piece of steel gas line? Less risk of being toxic than some brass (which may contain small amounts of lead). Brass just happened to be what I had laying around at the time.

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10 hours ago, Addie said:

Pictured are:

upper bout, widest, upper bout, narrowest, c-bouts narrowest, lower bout narrowest, lower bout, widest.

not pictured: long arch.

The pattern (2 PDFs) needs to be printed out and fitted together to make a full size pattern.

Addie I'd love the full set. Are they on that website you linked me before where I can find them?

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