GlennYorkPA

Is this a Genuine PIROZZI?

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Perhaps a better question would be:  - Is this a violin?

My latest acquisition plays beautifully and is the same size as a violin and where a label would normally be it is branded CHAMBROES PIROZZI in upper case letters.

I have no idea what this means.

Is this a fanciful 'one off' or a recognized model?.

Thanks for looking.

Glenn

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Now that's interesting!  Sound sample? :)

Did it come with a case?

 

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It looks cool.  I picture it as a Gypsy fiddle.  What intrigues me most is thinking about why the maker decided to use the outline and f-hole pattern.  A decorative fix to a flawed piece of wood?  A commission?  An uncontrollable urge to let his/her artistic expression out?

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

Now that's interesting!  Sound sample? :)

Did it come with a case?

 

You know it came with a fancy case, if Glenn bought it! :D

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2 hours ago, Rue said:

Now that's interesting!  Sound sample? :)

Did it come with a case?

 

 

Hello Rue,

I'm not sure my talents extend to recording sound clips but I'll give it a go. 

I've temporarily dumped my expensive Italians in favor of this one which is so easy and satisfying to play.

Oddly enough, the G seems curiously loud an boomy lacking some clarity but that could just be set up.

In fact, it was a gift from a friend who didn't appreciate it and it came in a crap case which I can't wait to consign to the dumpster.

Glenn

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1 hour ago, Jim Bress said:

It looks cool.  I picture it as a Gypsy fiddle.  What intrigues me most is thinking about why the maker decided to use the outline and f-hole pattern.  A decorative fix to a flawed piece of wood?  A commission?  An uncontrollable urge to let his/her artistic expression out?

 

Jim,

There are renaissance period instruments with similar outline. I think they are called viola da braccio or some such.

When you think of the challenges of corner blocks and bee stings, the maker wasn't looking for an easy time.

Glenn

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Pretty cool. Lots of German/Czech trade instruments were made with this festooned outline. Yours looks way better than most, but I suspect that its one of the "usual". Maybe not, maybe somebody could ID some feature to attribute it to an individual maker, but I doubt it.

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3 hours ago, deans said:

Pretty cool. Lots of German/Czech trade instruments were made with this festooned outline. Yours looks way better than most, but I suspect that its one of the "usual". Maybe not, maybe somebody could ID some feature to attribute it to an individual maker, but I doubt it.

 

Deans,

I was thinking Germanic also (FWIW it came with a chin rest marked  Czechoslovakia) but Jacob seems to be nudging us in the direction of France.

Glenn

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On 1/3/2017 at 1:00 PM, Addie said:

Stradivari used a scalloped outline for his pochettes.  

 

Any idea how he approached the inside of the scallops? It's hard to imagine what a negative corner block looks like and I haven't had the opportunity to see inside this one.

By the way, the weak point of this instrument is the pegbox. It is surmounted by a childishly simple head that is grafted on. (I mean the head is crafted onto the box and the pegbox is grafted onto the neck).  I might have the head replaced with something more in keeping with the rest of it.

Glenn

 

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Maybe...but it also made the painting famous...and the church received donation money towards further restorations.

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On 1/3/2017 at 7:37 AM, GlennYorkPA said:

Perhaps a better question would be:  - Is this a violin?

My latest acquisition plays beautifully and is the same size as a violin and where a label would normally be it is branded CHAMBROES PIROZZI in upper case letters.

I have no idea what this means.

Is this a fanciful 'one off' or a recognized model?.

Thanks for looking.

Glenn

 

The dark stain to the lower bass region is to my eye the result of many a sweaty violinist chin. Suggests to me that much of its playing history was without the crutch called a chin rest, namely pre-1900 or thereabouts. As a player, I would say this gives it a claim on reasonable age. The scalloping is not a style I've seen before, but the concept in general is not unheard of. The sound holes are interesting but reasonably similar to old models.

All in all, my mis-educated supposition is a circa 1820s instrument from the French Baroque revival scene. Speaking again as a player, I would call it a violin. Indeed, I would play it in my local symphony orchestra just to annoy people. :D

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1 hour ago, Andrew McInnes said:

The dark stain to the lower bass region is to my eye the result of many a sweaty violinist chin. Suggests to me that much of its playing history was without the crutch called a chin rest, namely pre-1900 or thereabouts. As a player, I would say this gives it a claim on reasonable age. The scalloping is not a style I've seen before, but the concept in general is not unheard of. The sound holes are interesting but reasonably similar to old models.

All in all, my mis-educated supposition is a circa 1820s instrument from the French Baroque revival scene. Speaking again as a player, I would call it a violin. Indeed, I would play it in my local symphony orchestra just to annoy people. :D

 

Thanks Andrew.

It definitely has some age. Apart from the stain from the 'sweaty chin' there are two shims under the shoulder of the neck, the shape of the button has been changed and the pegbox has been grafted onto the neck with a 5 cut graft (usually a mark of quality as it is harder to do than the normal 3 cut graft). All indicators of age so your date of c. 1820 seems quite reasonable to me and I'm happy to accept it.

I thought the vanish looked more German than French but if it had been German, Jacob would have nailed it in a flash but even he seemed to point it in the direction of France. I've never heard of the French Baroque revival scene. Can you say a little more about that? Was it a period when they copied baroque instruments?

Glenn

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The head things always scare the heck out of me!  I have even seen an elephant head with ivory tusks somewhere in the misty past.  Maybe someone could do a Whippet head on a viola for me!

 

DLB

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21 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

The head things always scare the heck out of me!  I have even seen an elephant head with ivory tusks somewhere in the misty past.  Maybe someone could do a Whippet head on a viola for me!

 

DLB

 

Dwight, on eBay, you can find many handles in the white for violins that come from China already carved with animal heads, heads of mythological beasts and also human heads. I haven't yet see a whippet but I'm sure there is a Chinese carver somewhere who would be happy to oblige :)

Glenn

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2 hours ago, violinsRus said:

you might enjoy this link, at least the body is very similar in appearance.  http://www.elderly.com/instruments/violin-family/keith-hill-viola-d-amore-72-1984.htm

It's described as a Viola D'Amore, with 13 strings.  Be glad yours only has 4!

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I think you just provided the best clue of all. If this is a viola d'amore, then mine is a viola d'amore with a replacement head and it is obvious why the head has been replaced!

Thanks

Glenn

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16 hours ago, violinsRus said:

you might enjoy this link, at least the body is very similar in appearance.  http://www.elderly.com/instruments/violin-family/keith-hill-viola-d-amore-72-1984.htm

It's described as a Viola D'Amore, with 13 strings.  Be glad yours only has 4!

picture1.jpg

I wonder what the tuning is on these instruments? If the lowest string is lower pitch than the G on a violin, that could explain the boomier bass on my instrument.

Glenn

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On ‎05‎.‎01‎.‎2017 at 0:15 AM, GlennYorkPA said:

 

 

I thought the vanish looked more German than French but if it had been German, Jacob would have nailed it in a flash but even he seemed to point it in the direction of France.

 

That sort of inference is evidently sufficient for the CIA, as we have recently seen. For the record, just because I couldn't be bothered to spend my weekend thumbing through old catalogues, I would not exclude some Markneukirchen „Historicism“. I would need the usual photographs to exclude such a possibility though.

 

 

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