German violin? How old?


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I think my original post got stale.  '

 

Let me know what you think of this violin.  

 

Original tag is gone.    I have been told it's German.  Older than 100, younger than 200.  

 

Repaired by J-Frammer in 1909

Repaired by JB Miller in 1980ish

 

Thanks for any help you can provide.   

 

CD

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I already gave my opinion in your other thread, but I'd like to see full length shots of it from top, bottom, and sides, and a detail of the back of the pegbox/scroll.  From what I can see of the fingerboard angle in the partial bass side photo, you're probably overdue for a neck reset. :)

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The corners and the scroll reminds me to the east side of the Musikwinkel (say - Czech). If so, the problem of  the separated neck is not something unusual. The good thing is that in most cases one can solve the problem very easy, because one can simply clean the old glue and do what one has to do.

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Here's a link to the original thread http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/336336-who-made-it-and-where/

 

I noticed those long plate corners, and found it interesting that the rib corners go to the bitter end of them anyway.  I'd still like to see full length views ( I want to check for deformation) and the back of the scroll (looking for a delta and any antiquing).  The scroll throat is fully carved, and so could be anything.  Examined closely, the bottom rib is two-piece.  :) 

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Peter of Mantua seems to know better, but I don't see any reason why this isn't Schoenbach ...

The usual Saunders methodology should apply. Does the scroll fluting go to the bitter end or stop short, are the blocks large or small, symmetrical around the corners or offset, are the rib corners squeezed together and filed off or mitred, are there any upper corner blocks ...etc

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Martin, IMHO, it's got mixed characteristics, and there's the repair labels (photos?) to consider.  Too close for me to call.  Not "the usual".  I'll defer to someone with a better knowledge of the wider Central European arena.  :)

 

If it wasn't for the possibly valid 1909 repair date, I'd blame it on someone like Juzek.  Visually, it's outside my usual bidding envelope.

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I'm with my fellow alumnus Martin on this one.

Granted, nothing to rule out Schoenbach, but some of what I see would tend to suggest dating it later than 1909, to when they were turning into homogenized "student fiddles".

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Granted, nothing to rule out Schoenbach, but some of what I see would tend to suggest dating it later than 1909, to when they were turning into homogenized "student fiddles".

You mean orange varnish, instead of brown paint?  :P

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You mean orange varnish, instead of brown paint?  :P

Among other things, yes.  The corners look atypically long to me, the finish a bit better, and the scroll is more deeply and smoothly carved than most I see.  If the thing wasn't BOB, I'd dismiss it as being from the same boring commercial dustbin as Scherl & Roths, etc. :P

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Is it just my impression, or is this area slighly different? Gouge/scraper-marks? Appears to have been modified to change the fluting apperance?

Definitely could be modified, but the pegbox was blackened and left that way, the full 9 o'clock front fluting looks like it was original, and I'd need to actually examine this one to sort it out.  It looks to me like Saxon mutton partially dressed as Italian lamb, but without any serious attempt to hide what it really is.  For the indicated time frame (pre 1909) the mainstream touches are unusual, and for the repair label being faked, the undisguised BOB corners are peculiar.  'Tis a puzzlement. :)

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Thank you for your opinions and musings.     I like the idea of it still being a mystery in some ways.  :)

If you had told me it was super rare and valuable I would have been more hesitant about playing it all the time.

I really enjoy playing it. 

 

As a follow up question.   Who make the best modern (less than $1000 violins).       I have some students with modern violins that play really well. 

 

CD

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