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Daniel Bond

I am trying to make a Violin that can beat strads

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My name is Bond, Daniel Bond. I'm 15, and yes you guessed it right. I'm the guy that posted what makes strads so special. That post is part of my reasearch on strads. I'm a guitarist, that is interested in Violin, but what makes me more interested into Violin? A special violin called strad. After I done my research I will start making Violin. So those of you that knows Violin making can help my reasearch.

Daniel Bond.

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Hi Daniel!  Are you planning to go to a violin making school, or apprentice with someone? :)

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Hi Daniel, read as many books as you can on violin making, the complexity of the craft is incredible. Find an apprenticeship, there are schools as well which give you a good start. Some people started by sweeping the floor of a workshop, then helping with small things and progressively more important things.

 

No one will ever surpass Stradivarius because he has mythology on his side. For every testament there is a new testament though, so here is hoping that in 300 years Daniel Bond violins are as renowned as Stradivarius.

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My name is Bond, Daniel Bond. I'm 15, and yes you guessed it right. I'm the guy that posted what makes strads so special. That post is part of my reasearch on strads. I'm a guitarist, that is interested in Violin, but what makes me more interested into Violin? A special violin called strad. After I done my research I will start making Violin. So those of you that knows Violin making can help my reasearch.

Daniel Bond.

 

I wish you good luck. You'll find a lot of help and precious info on MN. 

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Making violins that "beats Strads" assumes there is some objective way to score the result.  There isn't... it's all subjective.  And if the ultimate best sound is defined by Strads (or maybe a Guarneri or two), then it is by definition impossible to beat them.

 

A more realistic (and productive) goal would be to make a violin that sounds like the best of the modern makers.  If 300 years of age is in some way responsible for the "Strad Sound", trying to match or beat him might just prove to be impossible.  There are many makers today that are quite good, and at least they are alive and many times quite willing to share what they do.

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My name is Bond, Daniel Bond. I'm 15, and yes you guessed it right. I'm the guy that posted what makes strads so special. That post is part of my reasearch on strads. I'm a guitarist, that is interested in Violin, but what makes me more interested into Violin? A special violin called strad. After I done my research I will start making Violin. So those of you that knows Violin making can help my reasearch.

Daniel Bond.

 

And Sisyphus pushed rocks up hills.  I wish  you the best.  Keep us posted on your progess (though I fear I won't be around to witness the end result...)

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Hi Daniel,

 

I'm trying to better understand your goal:

   "I am trying to make a Violin that can beat strads"

 

Are you trying to make a (just one or lots?) violin that can beat Strads (some  Strads, many Strads, All Strads)?

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Daniel, I wish you all the best. If I may, my suggestion would be to change your first goal to "I am trying to build a violin." Once you master that, then start looking into how or if you can beat Stradivarius. (Like others have mentioned, a very subjective thing thou, without tangible objectives.)

Here is a page to get you started, with eveything you need to get started (apart from wood, tools and patience): http://www.makingtheviolin.com

(Based on one of Stradivarius' violins)

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Oh, I don't know!  I think having a high standard to achieve has merits.  Just remember you do have to start from the bottom up.  B)

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Sure thing Rue, but way too many people quit whatever they are good at, just because they are not best. Loving the process as much as the goal makes you hang in there. 
Having a very unrealistic* and unobjective* goal will make him dissapointed and return to his guitars.

* See Don's comment.

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Making violins that "beats Strads" assumes there is some objective way to score the result.  There isn't... it's all subjective.  And if the ultimate best sound is defined by Strads (or maybe a Guarneri or two), then it is by definition impossible to beat them.

 

A more realistic (and productive) goal would be to make a violin that sounds like the best of the modern makers.  If 300 years of age is in some way responsible for the "Strad Sound", trying to match or beat him might just prove to be impossible.  There are many makers today that are quite good, and at least they are alive and many times quite willing to share what they do.

I believe that it's not impossible to beat something that was made by imperfection. Every instrument has imperfection that made them sound so beautiful. There are no such thing as perfect by perfection. Every percection are made by imperfection.

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I think this thread is particularly interesting because of the distinction it makes between art and craft.  In art, brash ignorance can be surprisingly useful, and that is why some young people do phenomenal things.  They lack the deep knowledge and internalized critical voices that would dismiss a lofty goal, and in that unfettered clarity, a one-off masterpiece can burst forth.  That's why you can have a painter, poet, or composer come up with something remarkable, seemingly out of nowhere.  They only have to make one of whatever it is. 

 

However, in the world of violin playing, and certainly violin making, this is simply not possible.  That's because these endeavors are really craft.  It's a discipline.  You have to acquire skills and precision that require years of study and incredibly tedious repetition (that becomes somehow meditative for someone so inclined), so that your lofty goal is actually something that you can do consistently, day in and day out.  The person who succeeds in this will not be distinguished by this or that lucky effort, but by their overall oeuvre, and as Stavanger just said, they have to find satisfaction in the process.  If Daniel's brash desire is a spark that begins a process of discipline, and it matures into a delight in sharpening an edge, producing a lovely surface of smooth spruce, and the deep chemistry of varnish, he is onto something.  If he thinks he will make a violin or three, and will create something that anyone else thinks represents the pinnacle of luthiery, he will either take the inevitable disappointment that these beginning efforts are nowhere near a violin by Stradivari and buckle down to seek true mastery, or he will move on to something that provides satisfaction without as much of a down payment in time and effort.

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My name is Bond, Daniel Bond. I'm 15,

Good luck on all that, kid.  BTW, even if you succeed, it won't improve your love life.  Ask the guy with the Sawzall. happy-smiley12.gif

 

IMHO, you might be better off learning restoration to start.  I feel one has a better chance starting with an antique to begin with, and it builds confidence. :)

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I believe that it's not impossible to beat something that was made by imperfection. Every instrument has imperfection that made them sound so beautiful. There are no such thing as perfect by perfection. Every per(f)ection are made by imperfection.

Young man, you are in for a long, hard, ride. But I just might know someone who's willing to help you out.

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Bravo Daniel.  Aim high I always say.   :)

 

I was going to write on your other thread that years ago I began hearing makers say they were using science to figure out what Strad did so that we could equal him.  Well, for decades I didn't see anyone equal Strads.  Then I began to hear whispers that we are now trying to make violins better than Strads. I took that to mean that the same makers who were so convinced that science would lead them to equal Strad had found it impossible to do so; instead, they quietly decided to bypass that silly little goal and go for broke.  After all, why waste time equaling those sorry things that were made by barbarians who couldn't have even read the latest scientific findings had there been any in 1715.

 

You will find yourself in good company and once you get all the terminology down you can go anywhere that particular people congregate and get a warm fuzzy feeling of comradeship.   And the dues are cheaper than for the Masons or the Odd Fellows.

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It is very easy to surpass the sound of a Strad... if you get to choose which Strad to use for comparison.  There are some dogs.  

It gets a lot tougher if you want to go up against the best of them.  

However, if you have talent,  live to 90+,  make over 1000 instruments, and pick the best of them 300 years from now, I'd say you have an excellent chance.

For now, I would suggest not worrying about beating anybody, but just enjoying the process.

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Nobody has been able to surpass Strad and DG so there's no sense in following traditional violin making practices that have been used for last for the two and change centuries -it's been proven over and over again that they don't work.

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I'm curious about your thinking here, Daniel...

 

What is your take on having to use the exact same wood Strad used, in order to "outStrad" him?

 

There's a very specific reason why I ask this, and I'll be extremely interested in hearing your thinking on this aspect of violin making.

Is it the location (geographically) and those specific materials that take precedence - or is it the ability and genius of the luthier that takes precedence?

 

It is my opinion that Strad would have made the great violins he made -in any environment and in any geographic location.

But that's just me.

And, as I say - I'm asking you this question for a very specific reason -  what do YOU think ?.

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