Johan Baptist Schweitzer Fecit Pestini 1833 real or copy?

[Alvis]

Good day!

 

I'm in the market for a professional grade viola and I was browsing antique ones on Ebay for fun. I cam across a Johan Baptist Schweitzer Fecit Pestini 1833 viola. I know as far as violins go, there are a lot of fakes with the date 1813. However, I was unsure about this viola.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Size-Viola-Johan-Baptist-Schweitzer-Fecit-Pestini-1833-/161917498048?

 

It has a stamp but I don't know if I should trust it. I asked the owner about it through messages and he said

"This is a viola I have bought in 1985 in Romania (Eastern Europe) for the equivalent of $7000 (in the local currency ).
Since then,I had it evaluated by the Romanian reputed " Composers Association " and by the Romanian Patrimony associated with the "Magazinul Muzica " where I have obtained the permission to export it (actually carry it with me in the U.S.A.)
The viola still carries a stamp(on the left side )stating what I just explained to you.
It comes with a case to which is still attached the label from the airline Pan AM (One of the last flights of Pan Am !).
Inside there is a label reading :Joh. Bapt.Schweitzer
fecit Pestini 1833.
The 33 from the 1833 is completed by hand ,in black ink.
Also,right below that information,it bears a note ,in pencil,reading :Rep. M Hanganu,1990.
Hanganu was a famous Romanian violin maker ,trained in the Reghin region of Romania,where some of the most valuable string instruments are still being made.. So ,Master Hanganu serviced my viola in 1990 (new bridge,strings)."

 

If it is real, do you guys think it'd be professional grade or intermediate/advanced?

 

Thank you for reading this!

 

 

[jacobsaunders]

That, to my tremendous surprise when I opened the link, isn't one of those so-called “Schweizer copies” from 1813 that were in fact nothing to do with Schweizer at all, but just crumby “Markneukirchener Ware” from the late 19th. C. Rather it looks like something quite nice from Austo-Hungary from the 19th C. It would be impossible to commit myself from ebay pictures, but that would be worth a closer look.

The stamp on the centre rib, takes me back to the time when the “Iron Curtain” was just down the road, and all the Rumanian musicians had violins with a customs & excise stamp on, to stop them smuggling anything out to “The West”

[Stavanger]

To gamble or not to gamble 8000$...

[victordriver]

After BREXIT, Trump...now this! a real JB Schweizer...what next?

[Mansfield Piggot]

^Human sacrifice.  Dogs and cats living together.  Mass hysteria!

[Rue]

I'm so excited to see anything that isn't immediately id'd as the 'usual rubbish'! 

[deans]

Yes it looks way better than the usual "Schweitzers" that we see in the US. Given its size its even more of a crap shoot about how well it plays, and since its been on Fleabay so long I suspect its not a great player. People will often pay up for a good sounding small viola, several thou for a well built no-namer wouldn't be unheard of, and they often pass around through players. But this ones on Ebay..........

[Mansfield Piggot]

Try to get the official terms changed to 30 day return.  Tell them you plan to keep it but just need that assurance.  Use Paypal.

[Eryri]

Lower treble corner absent by the look of things. Bridge also apparently has no top to bottom taper - inspired or inept? Height of arching and some idea of the modelling would be nice to see too.

 

For 8k I wouldn't consider it without playing it first.

[martin swan]

I agree that this isn't the usual "Schweitzer" but isn't it modern? I would have thought it was post 1960.

But maybe I'm being overly suspicious - the way the seller answered your questions with lots of information that didn't answer your question and adds up to zero made me a bit sceptical.

I'm also wondering why the top's been off when there's no evidence of repairs. And why would someone add a repair label to say they'd cut a new bridge (very badly) and put some new strings on ...?

The total length is 25" but it's described as "fullsize ..."  

 

All in all, I wouldn't recommend buying something off Ebay without a return policy. Too many rogues who don't answer questions directly and who describe purported Schweitzers as Italian!

[Blank face]

The brand at the bridge reads "Farcas", not Hanganu.

This name would mean a red flag for me anyway.

[Stavanger]

What's your red flag about? Did you deal with a certain Andrei, or are you refering to something else?

[Blank face]

It looks as if you're familiar with something .

 

It might be against some forum rules to go into details, but many things aren't what they appear to be when this name is involved.

BTW, Jacob wrote about Austro-Hungary only, not that this is a real Schweitzer.

[j15310]

I have never seen a violin with an edge work like that; is it typical of the Hungarian school?

 

More generally, is  a particular type of edge work a characteristic feature of a school, or is it highly

individual to the maker?

[Violadamore]

Ummm....just giving my 2 cents.  If you have $8000 to spend, go to a real dealer.  If you can't ID it yourself from the provided photos, don't buy anything on eBay. 

[Violadamore]

Use Paypal.

Always!!!!!

[Mansfield Piggot]

^I was one of the first members of ebay, in the late 90s.  It was a real revelation that you could send people cash or money order, I can't actually remember what we used, and the person would actually send you something back.  Meditate on that for a minute.  Then it "caught on" and there was a need to increase its complexity...  Soon it became the usual trust no one.

[deans]

Good post Bill, I was there in those days too. There was a spirit about it that is now long gone.

[Mansfield Piggot]

^They had an ad with music that sounded like carnival music and they would play the ad constantly on conservative talk radio programs.  I can only speculate why that was a big part of their strategy, but it reminds me of the question -- who would you rather have watching your house for you, a conservative or a liberal