Fake Roger Hargrave on Ebay

[oistrakh93]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beautiful-Violin-Roger-Graham-Hargrave-Meyenburg-1998-/191976186733?hash=item2cb2ac236d:g:EtQAAOSwCGVX4ajn

[martin swan]

The photos seem to be exactly the same as when it was sold on Ebay by Chris Prowse-Smith a couple of years ago in the face of heavy threats of litigation by Roger ....

[BassClef]

Steps to prevent this in the future:

 

1.  File for a federal trademark (I can help with this)

2.  Register with eBay's VeRO Program (Verified Rights Owner) (After the trademark registers)

3.  Shut down any eBay auction selling fakes with a few clicks of the mouse.

 

This would be a country by country thing. A USA trademark will only be enough to shut down eBay.com listings or international listings that the seller selects to be available to USA buyers. To shut down an ebay.de auction, you'd need a trademark registered in Germany etc. etc.

 

The filing fee at the US trademark office is $225.

[victordriver]

Sorry guys but apart from this being Roger Hargrave, what exactly is the difference between this ad and all the other dodgy items? The advertiser starts the bid at 99 cents, doesn't offer a certificate and doesn't say 'by' Roger Hargrave.  

[Will L]

As long as a maker is alive he can fight this sort of thing, but eventually we might as well give up.  Every maker of any merit at all has stuff attributed to him eventually.  In a way it is a badge of honor.  It will be interesting to see who among our current lot of fine makers gets "the treatment" most.   

[martin swan]

Sorry guys but apart from this being Roger Hargrave, what exactly is the difference between this ad and all the other dodgy items? The advertiser starts the bid at 99 cents, doesn't offer a certificate and doesn't say 'by' Roger Hargrave.  

I think the difference is that a living maker can successfully sue a dealer for "passing off" if they can prove that they have informed said dealer that the item isn't authentic. 

Otherwise no difference ...

Although I understand that it must be very shocking for a maker to see their name abused in this manner, I also think it's a it of a storm in a teacup.

However, there are out and out crooks in the violin trade who routinely re-label relatively worthless violins. These people are bottom-feeders of the worst sort, and when they make the mistake of selling something like this, they are briefly exposed - it's a good opportunity to take them to the cleaners if you were so inclined.

[victordriver]

I think the difference is that a living maker can successfully sue a dealer for "passing off" if they can prove that they have informed said dealer that the item isn't authentic. 

Otherwise no difference ...

Although I understand that it must be very shocking for a maker to see their name abused in this manner, I also think it's a it of a storm in a teacup.

However, there are out and out crooks in the violin trade who routinely re-label relatively worthless violins. These people are bottom-feeders of the worst sort, and when they make the mistake of selling something like this, they are briefly exposed - it's a good opportunity to take them to the cleaners if you were so inclined.

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess that you need to spot that the seller has a recognisable business otherwise you are chasing shadows. I doubt that Roger Hargrave is the only live maker being ripped off, there are lots of violins out there on ebay with modern Italian labels.

[mmmm]

This guy offers a 14 day money back...how does he expect to scam people if they can return it?  Very confusing... 

[martin swan]

You are serious?

It's often many months before people discover what they really have ...

[jacobsaunders]

It's often many months before people discover what they really have ...

I suppose that that could be the one redeaming feature of Ebay. Once it has finaly dawned upon one, that the „steal“ one purportedly made, is actually just fake trash, one can simply just post it oneself, in the hope of finding the famous „greater idiot". In a logical world, the „smart money“ should buy shares in the US Postal Service, although I’m told the Yanks even manage to run that at a loss.

[Urban Luthier]

Speaking of Roger, how the heck is he? I've tried to reach out over the past year a few times but haven't heard back. Roger if your are listening I hope you are doing well!

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

[rudall]

.

[puckfandan]

About 10 minutes after this came up on eBay I sent photos to Roger so he is aware of it. And yes this does appear to be the same violin that was posted a couple years ago. I even messaged the seller three times and he never responded.

[Michael_Molnar]

Speaking of Roger, how the heck is he? I've tried to reach out over the past year a few times but haven't heard back. Roger if your are listening I hope you are doing well!

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

Roger logged in to MN about a week ago.

[Rue]

Roger is busy with grandkids!

[Violadamore]

The item's been utterly removed.  Did anyone get the seller's ID?  Please PM me with it if you did. Probably just one of a hundred sockpuppets, but I like to keep a list of sellers to avoid (and before someone makes the suggestion, "All of them" doesn't work for me  ).

 

 

You are serious?

It's often many months before people discover what they really have ...

That can work both ways.  It took me years (much of it spent learning from MN) to discover that some of my "rubbish" was frighteningly valuable after all.  Luckily, I'd already fixed those by then, had no disasters with them, and had hung on to them because they played well and sounded beautiful.    If I'd known what they were to begin with, they might still be sitting in pieces.