question about Ernst Heinrich Roth branding

[David Holbrook]

Hi Everyone,

 

  I have this violin without the label( I did not remove the label). I am seeking information on the branding on the inside back. I have only found more plain brands and have no example of this signature brand. Does anyone know if this was an early brand or if its authentic?

 

  Thanks for helping

[jamesbuchanan]

I am pretty sure I have seen this brand before on a E.H. Roth. I remember a brand that looked more like 'Eurgh' than 'Ernst' and finding it odd at the time.

 

The memory, wine - or jet lag - may be playing tricks on me, but I think it is probably right. I have seen about four Roths in the last three days (I need to get out more). All had a compressed brand in two layers, but they all dated after about 1920. You might be looking at an earlier one. Do you have any photographs of the back of the violin?

 

We have one online at the moment as a comparator, although I suspect later than yours (1929) http://www.amati.com/auction/item.php?id=3120

 

I saw a factory made instrument with a 'made under the supervision of Ernst Heinrich Roth' violin at a valuation day today. Looked grim. Client wanted upwards of £3,000. The only thing of value was the bit of the label that mentioned Roth's name.

[puckfandan]

I have been told this is pre 1924-25? Sorry for the poor quality.

[David Holbrook]

[duane88]

I have one of these, with the Earl Of  Wilton label. It has a small "Made in Germany" label over the edge of the label, so after 1921 and reminds me of the early 20's Roth catalog models.

[khunsakee]

This brand was used in the earlier Roth instruments and on the, Simson and Frey, Virtuso line. Before the brandstempel we all know and love, today. Note that, the "Kubelik" and "Wilton" labels use the same font as the Roth and Leader label.

[khunsakee]

I don't read/speak German but, I understand what 100 Jarhe means. I'd also like to point out that, at least, one of the labels/brandsm shown in my earlier comment were lifted from earlier MN posts.

Also, I know I'm a little late to be adding to this thread but, it and the photos are all new to me.

 

https://www.facebook.com/322829098217048/photos/a.637697050063583/658387761327845/

 

[Blank face]

11 hours ago, khunsakee said:

I don't read/speak German but, I understand what 100 Jarhe means. I'd also like to point out that, at least, one of the labels/brandsm shown in my earlier comment were lifted from earlier MN posts.

Also, I know I'm a little late to be adding to this thread but, it and the photos are all new to me.

 

https://www.facebook.com/322829098217048/photos/a.637697050063583/658387761327845/

 

The German words mean, in short terms, after a long unrelated talk about Guarneri and Kubelik (as if the instrument in question would be comparable other than the more or less randomly chosen name at the label) that the actual Roth firm doesn't know how it was made, from which wood, how the workshop looked during the period, how it came to America and what was it's sales price.

It's somehow making all requests at the actual firm for informations about old Roth violins appear to be absurd.

[nathan slobodkin]

On 3/3/2022 at 11:51 PM, khunsakee said:

This brand was used in the earlier Roth instruments and on the, Simson and Frey, Virtuso line. Before the brandstempel we all know and love, today. Note that, the "Kubelik" and "Wilton" labels use the same font as the Roth and Leader label.

I have a violin in the shop today with the reproduction of the Wilson Strad label  and the cursive brand. The date on the label is 1725 which according to one of the lists of EHR instruments would indicate the highest level but the instrument is not as nice as some Roth’s I have seen. I’ll be researching past posts tonight but does anyone know the grade and approximate date these labels and stamp would indicate?
 

Unfortunately I have had a lot of trouble posting pictures lately and may not be able to put any up.

[nathan slobodkin]

The label and brand I am talking about are identical to the last label shown in the pictures above. I reviewed everything I could find about this last night but am confused as to dates of these undated Roth labels. From what I have read it seems likely they were used prior to 1922 when the more familiar stamp and dated labels came into use. Is this right? I gather there were exceptions to every rule and some later instruments may have gotten earlier labels. Any thoughts on this appreciated.

[GeorgeH]

I suggest sending pictures to Wilhelm Roth.

[Blank face]

5 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

I suggest sending pictures to Wilhelm Roth.

As written in the newspaper article above, they don't have records from before 1924, and if they have they won't knew any circumstances.

[nathan slobodkin]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

As written in the newspaper article above, they don't have records from before 1924, and if they have they won't knew any circumstances.

So this label and stamp can be legit for early Roth's?

I have sent pictures to Wilhelm Roth but don't know how long it will take to get back to me. They don't take credit cards so payment will be a real pain. I think Jacob Saunders was saying Europe had done away with checks but these guys want "bank drafts" which sounds like something out of Dickens.

[HoGo]

10 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

They don't take credit cards so payment will be a real pain. I think Jacob Saunders was saying Europe had done away with checks but these guys want "bank drafts" which sounds like something out of Dickens.

Taking credit cards means paying fees to banks or card companies so unless your business volume is large enough it is not worth the hassle, especially when bank drafts (transfers) within EU are so plain cheap (few cents) and simple.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

Sending a bank transfer for $95 from Bank of America to the EH Roth company cost me a $35 service fee, since most of their customers are in the USA they should at least have the decency to offer Paypal as payment which would only cost them 3.5% which they could even pass on to the customer

[khunsakee]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:26 PM, nathan slobodkin said:

I have a violin in the shop today with the reproduction of the Wilson Strad label  and the cursive brand. The date on the label is 1725 which according to one of the lists of EHR instruments would indicate the highest level but the instrument is not as nice as some Roth’s I have seen. I’ll be researching past posts tonight but does anyone know the grade and approximate date these labels and stamp would indicate?
 

Unfortunately I have had a lot of trouble posting pictures lately and may not be able to put any up.

I don't think that Roth's maker/date, grading system applies to instruments prior to 1924. Also, and I can't recall why but, I believe, they, currently, consider these earlier violins as, by EHR I.