laustephen498 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Posted August 23, 2016 Hello,I have a violin with the neck graft done by Hill's. I wonder how the Hill's finish the neck? It has passed 40 years and the neck is still intact with a glassy look. I have heard that the Hill bow maker finish their bow with boiled linseed oil. Is that the thing they used in finishing the neck? Any ideas? Some image of the neck https://s13.postimg.org/4ad3bz1br/Whats_App_Image_2016_08_23_at_14_59_05.jpg https://s15.postimg.org/8bpybugob/Whats_App_Image_2016_08_23_at_14_59_05_1.jpg
David Burgess Posted August 23, 2016 Report Posted August 23, 2016 How long have you owned the instrument (when might the neck have last been french polished)? How much has it been played?
FredN Posted August 23, 2016 Report Posted August 23, 2016 That is the finish that I used on gun stocks and inst necks, you rub in linseed oil ( can't remember if boiled or raw is used) with your sweaty hand, repeat until a gloss is developing, and sweat, humidity do not affect it, area is always slick and shiny.
Michael_Molnar Posted August 23, 2016 Report Posted August 23, 2016 Boiled linseed oil is best for finishing raw wood.
nathan slobodkin Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 That neck looks French polished to me. This has been discussed on maestronet before and opinions and tastes vary. Francais" always used shellac polish and I still do.
MikeC Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 On 8/23/2016 at 6:11 PM, Michael_Molnar said: Boiled linseed oil is best for finishing raw wood.
Jeffrey Holmes Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Most of the Hill neck grafts I've seen appear to bear a polished finish. I suspect that if it's shellac, it's a variety (grade) that is pretty impervious to sweat, as the necks seem almost pristine after a long period of time. If Roger Hargrave (or one of the other ex-Hill luthiers in our community) happens to see this thread, maybe he (or they) can fill in the blanks.
edi malinaric Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 That is the finish that I used on gun stocks and inst necks, you rub in linseed oil ( can't remember if boiled or raw is used) with your sweaty hand, repeat until a gloss is developing, and sweat, humidity do not affect it, area is always slick and shiny. Hi Fred - Over 55 years ago was shown by a Holland & Holland trained stock-man how to finish a gun stock using a 50/50 mixture of raw linseed oil and turpentine oil. The turpentine oil does two things... i) it acts as an accelerator in the polymerization process (which is why they add metallic based driers to boiled linseed oil) ii) it reduces the viscosity of the linseed oil so that it penetrates the wood to a greater depth. An essential part of getting a good finish was to apply the thinnest coating possible and rub it in as vigorously as possible. His words were "rub it until you can smell your skin beginning to burn". Repeat at weekly intervals - this gives the new coat time to fully polymerize (needs access to oxygen to do this) before adding another layer. cheers edi
laustephen498 Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Posted August 24, 2016 Thank you for the replies! My friend has tested the neck by dipping small fraction of it with alcohol. Nothing happens. Besides,I am thinking Danish oil. Could that be an alternative?
martin swan Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Really nothing beats a Hill neck for feel and playability - they are smooth to just the right degree, as has been remarked the finish lasts forever, and they have a warm natural feel quite unlike a shellac finish. Whatever the technique was, i would love to know. I think Edi's gunstock treatment is probably something like it. Certainly the way the yellow seems to get right into the flame makes me think of linseed.
jacobsaunders Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 After being on this forum (or “Board” as Jeffrey would say) for a year or two, the topics start going around in circles. We have had this theme before too, and I will try being economical with my time by linking to what I said then (others made interesting coments too!) http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/333834-ground-on-violin-neck/?p=709205
MikeC Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Jacob I just read your post in that other thread.l You mention the use of mineral oil. I don't think that mineral oil leaves a glossy finish does it?
jacobsaunders Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Jacob I just read your post in that other thread.l You mention the use of mineral oil. I don't think that mineral oil leaves a glossy finish does it? no, but I polish over afterwards with a rag with a schelac/sanderac mixture if I want a “glossy finish” (not everyone does)
Don Noon Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 I can't imagine that a pure linseed finish, built up to that level of gloss, would work. I think it would be rather gummy and sticky, and get even moreso with sweat. It does look polished with something... French polish would be the first guess, but if it's alcohol-resistant, there could be other resin/solvent combinations that could be used for polishing. The possibilities are endless, so it would be best to hear from someone who worked in the shop for clues as to what might have been used. The possibilities get even more infinite when you consider that it could be several different materials applied in different layers.
MikeC Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Hopefully Roger will chime in. It would be interesting to know what they used. I haven't seen him on the board lately. Is he still around?
jacobsaunders Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Roger is geting far to old. He is well over a hundred years old already. I will ring him up, and ask if the nurse can carry him across to his computer
Addie Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Last time I chatted with Roger, he explained he is a very busy man.
joerobson Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Hi Fred - Over 55 years ago was shown by a Holland & Holland trained stock-man how to finish a gun stock using a 50/50 mixture of raw linseed oil and turpentine oil. The turpentine oil does two things... i) it acts as an accelerator in the polymerization process (which is why they add metallic based driers to boiled linseed oil) ii) it reduces the viscosity of the linseed oil so that it penetrates the wood to a greater depth. An essential part of getting a good finish was to apply the thinnest coating possible and rub it in as vigorously as possible. His words were "rub it until you can smell your skin beginning to burn". Repeat at weekly intervals - this gives the new coat time to fully polymerize (needs access to oxygen to do this) before adding another layer. cheers edi 55 years ago boiled linseed oil was a different material.Joe
Jeffrey Holmes Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Roger is geting far to old. He is well over a hundred years old already. I will ring him up, and ask if the nurse can carry him across to his computer Maybe we can take up a collection and get him a laptop so he doesn't need to move at all!
Jeffrey Holmes Posted August 24, 2016 Report Posted August 24, 2016 Really nothing beats a Hill neck for feel and playability - they are smooth to just the right degree, as has been remarked the finish lasts forever, and they have a warm natural feel quite unlike a shellac finish. Whatever the technique was, i would love to know. I think Edi's gunstock treatment is probably something like it. Certainly the way the yellow seems to get right into the flame makes me think of linseed. I honestly have no idea what was used. Martin... but various resins and different grades of the same resins can feel very different from one another. If it's not a form of polish, and we're going by feel, it feels related to Danish Oil to me. That really doesn't mean much, though! It is true that the stuff on Hill necks is not easily dissolved by alcohol, but I believe the Hills used a grade of shellac for crack filler during the mid 20th century that exhibited the same behavior once it was fully cured (I hate that stuff). I know there are one or two ex-Hill restorers besides Roger who occasionally visit. Maybe they'll chime in.
MikeC Posted June 9, 2017 Report Posted June 9, 2017 Since Roger has re-appeared and is no longer deceased, perhaps he might see this and comment on the Hill's neck treatment?
Ratcliffiddles Posted June 10, 2017 Report Posted June 10, 2017 Is that definitely a Hill graft??? I can't say it looks typical, maybe a late one?
nathan slobodkin Posted June 10, 2017 Report Posted June 10, 2017 1) What the heck is Danish oil? 2) Peter, In what way does that graft look atypical of Hill's?
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