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Do you guys ever use liquid hide glue?

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I fear I just opened a can of worms with that topic, but I figured I'd ask.   ;)

I find my self using the stuff every now and then. When I just need a bit of glue fast, it's handy to grab the tube of liquid hide that I have. Sometimes heating up a pot would be a hassle. I have used it on some structurally unimportant cracks f.x. A benefit would be the opening time, but that would also be the biggest hassle - that it actually needs some time to set. I have also been told it's a bit weaker than a fresh pot of hide, without having done a strength test my self. So I guess it is not the stuff for center seams. Do you guys ever use it? Or do you consider it a big no-no? Once set it should behave more or less like normal hide; is there any other down side to it, apart from tradition?

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I use liquid fish glue from Kremer. It is very good, just smells some antibiotic that they add to prevent spoiling. It is as strong as hide glue, just very comfortable to use because you are not in a hurry like with regular hide glue.

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If you do a search on liquid hide glue, you'll probably find a bunch of stuff. The general answer is no, don't use it. It has an expiration date on it, and it has been noted to re-liquify under hot humid conditions.

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If you do a search on liquid hide glue, you'll probably find a bunch of stuff. The general answer is no, don't use it. It has an expiration date on it, and it has been noted to re-liquify under hot humid conditions.

 

My Kremer liquid fish glue has a shelf life of 10 years and we use around 300ml of this glue per year, so it makes sense to get one liter of it and it will be used earlier that it expires. Kremer is known for very good quality products, everything that I got from them worked really well for me and I am happy to deal with them. Just my personal experience. Isinglass will stay liquid for a long time too, it is a great glue just much more expensive and you need to make some work to get it out of the bladders.

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I have some, and use it occasionally, mostly for jigs and fixtures.  I find it to be plenty strong, as long as you don't get it wet.

 

I might use it on junker VSO test projects, but not for anything on a real instrument.

 

The Lee Valley fish glue I have says it has a 2 year shelf life, but no date on it.  I'm pretty sure I've had it for around 10 years, and it still seems to work as good as ever.

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The only use I have for the liquid hide we can buy locally is for keeping bow ferrule spreader wedges from coming out too easily. It is thick so it stays where you put it but extremely weak and you can often pop the wedge off the frog with very light pressure.

By the way if I don't know for sure what kind of glue was last used I don't try to pop it but split the wedge leaving a thin layer of the wedge glued to the tongue and then shave that off to avoid any possibility of pulling away any ebony from the tongue.

Isinglass is a whole different story. Excellent stuff for certain purposes.

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Many years ago, when I knew nothing but thought I did, I used it to make my first violin. Mistake. I hung that violin on the wall and the next summer it was very hot. I remember watching TV as that violin fell apart off the wall. Liquid hide will do that in high heat. It also has a bad creep factor. Don't use it.

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I used liquid hide glue on my first violin (before I knew better) and it held up fine for a few years in Colorado. When I moved to Missouri the hot and humid weather got it . It is now in pieces. The only thing I use it for now is to temp glue blocks and corners in the mold or when a little dab will do ya.

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I had tried with the liquid hide glue of Titebond. I find it is strong enough for simple works. I would not set a neck or something like that with it. For fast simple works its fine. I also use it as a ground, it really saves time to not heat the pot. 

For stronger needs, I use the international violin fish glue. I'm happy with it, never failed to me. So I just use the common hide glue when I need to make rubbed joints or something I can not stand the open time. 
 

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 So I guess it is not the stuff for center seams.

 

I have a friend who uses some brand of LHG for center seams.  Quite sad, because you can tell by looking.  Otherwise, he's a pretty good maker. And he prepares traditional hide glue very well.  So I have no idea what in the world he is thinking.

 

In short, never use it for anything on the body of the instrument, including repairs, and you'll be better off.  

 

A very well known deceased maker seems to have used it for gluing his necks into the mortice.  But they definitely would come unglued, because I saw it happen twice.  You could see on the gluing surface of the heel that the glue had not even seeped into the wood to any extent.  It sat there in rows as if he had squirted it from the bottle and not even spread it.  (I don't know if he did that for years or was just trying it for a while. 

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I've used the liquid fish glue many times. I think it's actually stronger than your average hide glue. At least that was the impression I got when I tried to remove a fingerboard that was glued with it. It does have a reputation for being susceptible to heat and high humidity. I did some tests at around 80% RH and the glue held perfectly well. What I didn't do was subject it to high humidity and a temperature above 25 C. I suspect it's a combination of high humidity and a fairly high temperature that might compromise the glue joint.

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We have a long and successful history with hot hide glue. Use other glues at your own risk. Some have known weaknesses, like the tendency of "liquid hide glue" to re-liquefy under high humidity conditions, and the tendency of Titebond to "creep". 

 

Other glues, we don't know so much about yet, either because they were "niche' glues (not in the mainstream), or because they haven't been around long enough to know how they stand up to the test of time.

 

That said, nothin' wrong with using liquid hide glue for gluing on something like an upper nut, if it makes your job easier somehow. It will probably hold the nut in place adequately for trimming, and once string tension is in place, that will be quite adequate to hold it in place, without any glue at all.

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.....That said, nothin' wrong with using liquid hide glue for gluing on something like an upper nut, if it makes your job easier somehow. It will probably hold the nut in place adequately for trimming, and once string tension is in place, that will be quite adequate to hold it in place, without any glue at all.

Yes, but my experience was (glued a fingerboard and nut) that when it re-liquefied, it crept out of the joint and got all sticky on the neck and  in your hands... ugh!!....  for a nut "without any glue at all" would be better!

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Ok -i think I know what you mean by "liquid hide glue".

 

Hide glue is always a liquid. But it is made from granules. Dry granules. ALWAYS.

 

Don't use the stuff that comes in a plastic squirt bottle. You must get a heater of whatever type, and simply make the glue from scratch.

Properly made? it never comes apart, really.

 

I have plates that I glued together twenty year ago  and they are still perfectly glued. And I live in Roswell New Mexico, where the humidity is all over the map.

 

 

On the other hand I believe that there are other glues that one may use - but - as a violin maker, freshly made Hide glue is the glue of choice.

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I have some, and use it occasionally, mostly for jigs and fixtures.  I find it to be plenty strong, as long as you don't get it wet.

 

I might use it on junker VSO test projects, but not for anything on a real instrument.

 

The Lee Valley fish glue I have says it has a 2 year shelf life, but no date on it.  I'm pretty sure I've had it for around 10 years, and it still seems to work as good as ever.

I agree. Hide glue works for ever.

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