Upside down plate jointer...

[Nick Allen]

So,

 

I'm currently thinking of making a wooden jointer plane for my plates/battens. I'm so sick of using my crappy jack plane for achieving a good centre joint, so I decided on making one of those wooden planes that you put in your vise and run the piece over it. I haven't the slightest clue as to what to call it, therefore I can't pull up any plans to make one.

 

How many of you guys and gals use one of these? And what the frak do you call such a beast?

 

Any help would be appreciated!

 

Thanks.

[uncle duke]

What brand of #5 plane do you have now?

[duane88]

I call it a #8 Lie-Nielsen

[Wee B. Bridges]

So,

 

I'm currently thinking of making a wooden jointer plane for my plates/battens. I'm so sick of using my crappy jack plane for achieving a good centre joint, so I decided on making one of those wooden planes that you put in your vise and run the piece over it. I haven't the slightest clue as to what to call it, therefore I can't pull up any plans to make one.

 

How many of you guys and gals use one of these? And what the frak do you call such a beast?

 

Any help would be appreciated!

 

Thanks.

 

 

I just use an old #8 Stanley  jointer plane flipped upside down in a shoulder vise.  The advantage of the corrugated bottom, it  offers less resistance.

 

Making a wooden one or picking up a used or new somewhere, It is crucial to the operation to have trued the sole. 

[Will L]

As far as I know "wooden plane" IS the name for a plane made of wood.  

 

If you're talking about making a device to support your plane and guide the pieces being joined, that's called a "shooting board," around here at least.

[MarkBouquet]

If you have a good, flat bench surface, it really is easier and safer to lay the boards flat, the plane on it's side, and shoot the joints. If you don't have a good, flat bench, then you need one.

[Nick Allen]

I understand everything that you guys are saying. I can just use my #5 upside down. It's a turn of the century Stanley Bailey.

I suppose the thing that I'm describing is a wooden plane with no handles. No front knob or rear handle, that is used exclusively in reverse fashion. By that I mean with the work piece being drawn across the stationary plane.

[uncle duke]

It's a turn of the century Stanley Bailey.

 

Here some stuff to try later for your #5.  At the very least, the tongue, mouth area and heel need to be on the same plane/levelness.  Then check squareness of the sides and bottom of the outer plane bed.

 

Disassemble chip breaker and blade assembly.  Check squareness of lever cap, blade and chipbreaker.  Flatten the chipbreaker edge that rests against the cutting blade back area so that it is flat and check cap lever edge flatness too - should be good already.

 

Loosen two frog screws and push frog forward to see if the frog bed and mouth opening area are on the same plane.  You have a good plane if the surfaces are in plane with each other.  If not, remove frog from bed and clean/level the frog mounting bosses carefully. it's usually excess japaning but check for bad metal areas.

 

If your frog bed and mouth opening are on the same plane check to see if the lateral adjusting lever and "y" adjusting lever are in good condition.   Your plane should cut now.  

  If the frog bed and mouth opening are not on the same plane remove frog and place four {4} .086 thick (2 mm) shimstock at each frog boss mating locations to raise the height of the frog assembly above the bed.   You can enlongate the screw slots if you want.  Now match the frog and mouth opening plane.  

  Tighten screws and set the chip breaker as close to the blade edge as possible.  Assemble the plane with the adjustment barely showing the blade edge from underside of the mouth of plane - barely.   Remember that #4 smoothing plane parts can be used on a #5 jack.   I'm going from memory so if I forgot something important....... I'll add later.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

I understand everything that you guys are saying. I can just use my #5 upside down. It's a turn of the century Stanley Bailey.

I suppose the thing that I'm describing is a wooden plane with no handles. No front knob or rear handle, that is used exclusively in reverse fashion. By that I mean with the work piece being drawn across the stationary plane.

 

At school, we used a dedicated Ulmia wooden jointing plane locked into the tail vice and supported by a stout stick in the front that was inserted into a hole.  Probably not to difficult to make the plane body yourself if that's what you desire.

[DarylG]

Hi Nick, you should check out MJ Kwan's "Joint Pain" series of comics in the archives section of her website. She uses a plane as you're describing. The comics are hilarious and you might find some useful tips. 

 

Video showing her plane:

https://fixitwithshading.com/2015/02/23/joint-pain-documentation/

[Nick Allen]

At school, we used a dedicated Ulmia wooden jointing plane locked into the tail vice and supported by a stout stick in the front that was inserted into a hole.  Probably not to difficult to make the plane body yourself if that's what you desire.

This. This is exactly what I was talking about. I've seen the MJ Kwan video about jointing. I was wondering what that thing was. I've heard that wooden planes are easire to keep in check than metal ones, plus I want to have a dedicated tool for the job. I figured that it would be a cool project to make one too.

[Thomas Coleman]

The plane that MJ uses in the video is, for all intent and purposes,  a Krenov style plane.  It is the standard plane that almost every student of CSVM has used for many years now.  You can find all the info you need about making one in the book "Making and Mastering Wood Planes" by David Finck.  

[TimRobinson]

Hi Nick, you should check out MJ Kwan's "Joint Pain" series of comics in the archives section of her website. She uses a plane as you're describing. The comics are hilarious and you might find some useful tips. 

 

Video showing her plane:

https://fixitwithshading.com/2015/02/23/joint-pain-documentation/

What is the final part with the water being painted on then the joint being held over a flame? I've not come across that before.

Thanks,

Tim

[Jeffrey Holmes]

 

  It is the standard plane that almost every student of CSVM has used for many years now.  

 

Yeah...  Starting many years after I was there, I'm afraid.   We had the Ulmia.  Worked very well though.  I still use one from time to time.

[joshuabeyer]

What is the final part with the water being painted on then the joint being held over a flame? I've not come across that before.Thanks,Tim

Water is brushed on either side of the plate just outside the joint, then heated in an effort to expand the wood towards the joint, to help close any gaps.

[TimRobinson]

Water is brushed on either side of the plate just outside the joint, then heated in an effort to expand the wood towards the joint, to help close any gaps.

Thanks, interesting. Is there any evidence it works? It always amazes me how strong the rubbed joint is. I've had am off cut from a back laying around for years, I've used it as a wedge, under ladders, as a sanding block, all kinds of odd things. Every now and again I'd try to break the joint, even jumped on it, but it never separated - until I left it in the rain :-)

Tim

[nathan slobodkin]

There was a company in Colorado called Beck tools which was still selling Ulmias 10 years or so ago I have been using the same rig Jeffrey mentioned for the last 30 years and while it took some scraping of the sole to get it working perfectly I have not had to do anything to it since the first tuning.

[~ Ben Conover]

Your 'crappy jack plane' is likely fine....if it's flat and sharp. 

Using upside down jointers was what they did before they had surface planer machines. 
For making centre joints a number 6 bedrock is really all you'd ever need. 

[MJ Kwan]

This. This is exactly what I was talking about. I've seen the MJ Kwan video about jointing. I was wondering what that thing was. I've heard that wooden planes are easire to keep in check than metal ones, plus I want to have a dedicated tool for the job. I figured that it would be a cool project to make one too.

 

Hmm, I'm a little late to the thread. Did you end up making one?

 

Some students are turned off by the school jointer because the sole changes almost daily. They are easier to adjust, but be sure to seal the body very well, or you will be adjusting almost every jointing session. In that video you can see the jointer body itself is actually popping at all the seams because it was never well sealed. So shellac it a bunch once you've made it, especially at the mouth where there's a lot of endgrain exposure, and it will be much more stable.

[Michael.N.]

Upside down plane? We might call it a coopers plane or even a lute makers plane. Just plain plane will do though.

[Dwight Brown]

I have a feeling that it may be more cost effective in the long run to buy the longest Joiner Plane from Lie-Neilsen.  Not cheap, but it won't ever wear out and you can spend your time making fiddles.  On the other hand I love dreaming up and making stuff, so I see the idea!

 

DLB

[Dwight Brown]

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/CoopersJointer.html

 

Maybe this?

 

DLB

[joerobson]

Try the books by and videos about James Krenov.

[Bill Yacey]

If you have a good, flat bench surface, it really is easier and safer to lay the boards flat, the plane on it's side, and shoot the joints. If you don't have a good, flat bench, then you need one.

I agree. If the piece to be planed lies flat on the bench, it's a more repeatable and consistent operation because you don't have to balance the piece on end.

[Urban Luthier]

At school, we used a dedicated Ulmia wooden jointing plane locked into the tail vice and supported by a stout stick in the front that was inserted into a hole.  Probably not to difficult to make the plane body yourself if that's what you desire.

lee Valley sells the hardware to make your own bevel down plane. I just plane the two halves together in a face vice-- that way any minor irregularity in twist cancel out. Should only take a few min to get a perfect joint. I use a bevel up Jack but any jack should do as long as it is flat.