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BigFryMan

scroll heel position

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Hi everyone,

 

I'm currently building my second violin and loosely using a poster for the Del Gesu Alard.

As a player I really notice when something is not right with the neck.

There's a big discrepancy on where the scroll heel sits in reference to the end of the fingerboard/nut joint between my Johnson and Courtnall generic neck template and the strad poster that I'm referencing. The poster has the heel protruding maybe 2mm further into the neck. I do remember my last violin not feeling 100% comfortable in 1st position, but chalked that up to a pegbox that was too wide.

My initial reaction is to follow the Johnson and Cournall template.

What is a standard distance between the nut and where the pegbox heel ends? Is this a measurement that you meticulously check? 
 

Thanks in advance.

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I read recently about one maker here to another lining up the fingerboard/nut join line and going straight down..........if I remember right,  Not 100% sure.- I was searching for something else.

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I consider as a standard align the end of the back of the scroll with the nut line.

Definitely not inside this line (toward the neck) because it would take away room for the hand with possible discomfort in first position.

2 mm seem too much, I would correct the position moving back the whole scroll.

 

post-70417-0-81262000-1468622923_thumb.jpg

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I consider as a standard align the end of the back of the scroll with the nut line.

Definitely not inside this line (toward the neck) because it would take away room for the hand with possible discomfort in first position.

2 mm seem too much, I would correct the position moving back the whole scroll.

 

attachicon.gifMod Messia D.Sora.jpg

Thank you Davide, that's exactly the confirmation I needed. Also, thanks again for putting up your making videos on youtube, I reference them often.

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I consider as a standard align the end of the back of the scroll with the nut line.

Definitely not inside this line (toward the neck) because it would take away room for the hand with possible discomfort in first position.

2 mm seem too much, I would correct the position moving back the whole scroll.

 

attachicon.gifMod Messia D.Sora.jpg

Why would you have the, A, D and G strings in the same plane? Impressing aestehtics? Or just that one wants the strings up there not to ring at certain frequencies? Longer free lengths would give lower notes.. and this kind of things might matter for the open ringing strings and the feel up there..

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Why would you have the, A, D and G strings in the same plane? Impressing aestehtics? Or just that one wants the strings up there not to ring at certain frequencies? Longer free lengths would give lower notes.. and this kind of things might matter for the open ringing strings and the feel up there..

I'm not sure I understood your question correctly.

Anyway, the strings shown in my drawing are A and D only (theoretical position), and have a slightly different angle.

These lines have the purpose to helps in setting the highest level that pegs can have without the strings touch them, allowing a free afterlength from nut to peg.

 

The aim is purely to allow easy tuning, no intention of afterlenght frequency tuning, is already stressful and puzzling enough to deal with tailpiece afterlenght...... :rolleyes:

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 Is this a measurement that you meticulously check? 

 

 

Yes.  

 

However, some people are promoting having the heel a little further up to allow for more player comfort.  I am not one of those, since I have never felt discomfort when the set up is as Davide's picture shows.  It's the best and most traditional way, IMO.  

 

You definitely would not want to give the effect of more space by moving the nut down.  In other words, the measurement from the nut to the edge is the important thing. I wouldn't want to shorten that.  So IF you want more sense of space, it needs to be built in to the length of the neck, so you'd be moving the heel up, in effect, with the nut already in the right place.

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It is not at all odd to see heavy thumbnail damage to the mullet area when the orientation is set as David's drawing indicates. In a neck re-set situation, it is also pretty common that the neck has to be lengthened in order to correct the angle of the set without altering the button. In these cases, dropping the fingerboard in the direction David describes in his comments that accompany the drawing is necessary and works to correct both issues. I believe we all fall into the assumptions about things being straight, square, level, and even when there is no real evidence or reason for the assumption in the first place. Without question however, the measurements need to be correct.

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David's diagram is correct, just stick to that get the neck length and shape right and you're doing ok. 

The 'Alard' Del Gesu has a fairly short pegbox so juggling the peg holes further back is not as easy as it might be 
on a longer pegbox...if that's what you're talking about :
When making a new violin I usually set all the pegs back a few mm's to enable a player with large hands to play
in half position without hitting the E peg with the back of the hand. 

No point using the Alard as an exact templet unless you're making a fiddle for someone who normally plays the Alard...
players get used to neck shapes and if they don't they're not players. 
Worst case scenario is a player (met one last week) who thinks a 23mm nut width on a 16.5'' viola is a good idea.

 

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Yes.  

 

However, some people are promoting having the heel a little further up to allow for more player comfort.  I am not one of those, since I have never felt discomfort when the set up is as Davide's picture shows.  It's the best and most traditional way, IMO.  

 

You definitely would not want to give the effect of more space by moving the nut down.  In other words, the measurement from the nut to the edge is the important thing. I wouldn't want to shorten that.  So IF you want more sense of space, it needs to be built in to the length of the neck, so you'd be moving the heel up, in effect, with the nut already in the right place.

Will When you have played a violin with the chin of pegbox pushed north (assuming all measurements are correct), do you notice this is a bad way, or is it just a matter of not being necessary?

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