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Bruce Tai

Hemicellulose degradation in Strads has finally been measured

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Yes, moisture content is a huge factor.  The largest change in processed wood properties is usually in damping, and the largest change in mass is due to a far lower EMC in the wood.  Actual solid mass lost has been quite low, only about 4%.  Permanent water loss is slightly more.
 

 

If Bruce's numbers (in post #1) are correct, a maple plate would have started at 109g.  I don't know if that number includes reduced EMC or not; if not, then the number would be even higher.

 

I am quite surprised at that value, and based solely on my processing experience, would have guessed the mass loss over 300 years would be much lower, more like 5 grams.  But this is all guesswork; I don't know of any wood samples that were carefully weighed 300 years ago, and have been kept intact until today. 

 

Thanks ...

I guess Stradivari's instruments are getting more expensive per gram in more ways than one.

Amazing to think that that much weight has been lost!

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Bruce,

Have you considered the role of photo degradation in your study?

Joe

I think it's important to understand it's role in influencing oxidization.

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The question I have is when you say "deep" into the neck, how deep is deep? I mean, this discussion about instruments is important, but there are of thousands of people living in and going into "historic buildings" where large portions of the structural integrity of the building are based solely on timber, many buildings fall into or surpass the age range we are talking about here.

 

It has always been my feeling that the dimensions of the material have lots to do with the level of degradation, yet your "deep" into the wood is VERY concerning from a general building contractor point of view. So I do wish you would be specific with the depth, because well it's one thing of a violin caves in, its another if Edo castle does.

 

If you take the time to investigate the easily verifiable reality of global geoengineering programs and the use of aerosol spraying of nano aluminum particles I think you'll find the answer to the high levels of aluminum in modern samples.

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The question I have is when you say "deep" into the neck, how deep is deep? I mean, this discussion about instruments is important, but there are of thousands of people living in and going into "historic buildings" where large portions of the structural integrity of the building are based solely on timber, many buildings fall into or surpass the age range we are talking about here.

It has always been my feeling that the dimensions of the material have lots to do with the level of degradation, yet your "deep" into the wood is VERY concerning from a general building contractor point of view. So I do wish you would be specific with the depth, because well it's one thing of a violin caves in, its another if Edo castle does.

If you take the time to investigate the easily verifiable reality of global geoengineering programs and the use of aerosol spraying of nano aluminum particles I think you'll find the answer to the high levels of aluminum in modern samples.

You mean strads are so good because of chemtrails? ;-)

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Sorry about that... Had to do it!

I don't know about geoengineering, but the massive use of aluminum based deodorants probably plays a role there, yes...

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Sorry about that... Had to do it!

I don't know about geoengineering, but the massive use of aluminum based deodorants probably plays a role there, yes...

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/

 

from the website, one of many....someone please tell me I and all these people are nuts....there was a time where I was the minority, that time is gone

 

 

now you do, if you want to learn

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Very interesting research, Bruce.  I have a different set of questions.

1) Given that at least some of the degradation is caused by oxidation, what about storing valuable old violins under N2 when not played? It could be pretty easy: a cylinder of N2, a mostly air tight case, and simply place violin in case, and flush the case when the violin is not being used. The Tempest case, and others, are waterproof, so having a good case isn't a problem.  They could be fitted with gas lines easily...That could triple the remaining life of these violins, based on hours not played?

 

2) You mentioned that instrument time was limited.  NMRs are very common in research labs. Was the NMR (solid state) that you used specialized? How did you do sample prep? And after you ran a few samples, was the process of measurement much more streamlined, so you could handle many more samples in the alloted time? Where will these results and detailed description be published?

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Maybe Argon gas???

 

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I mentioned Nitrogen because it is relatively inert and cheap.  Argon is used for dry suit gas, but a little cylinder is very expensive.  Argon would be better.  We would want to eliminate as much oxygen as possible.

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Okay ... I did not know the cost of Argon vs. Nitrogen.

 

Imagine a day when the last Stradivari violin is left .... that will be a sad sad day.

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