Sign in to follow this  
jandepora

MALINE - Violin

Recommended Posts

What of all MALINE makers could made violins and use this kind of fire Mark?

The violin is very unusual and is a copy of a F. Chanot cornerless... what Maline could did it?

 

post-77467-0-38071900-1458587563_thumb.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you...

And what of all use that kind of mark?

The violín has an inverted scroll and bone all the edge.. It has the closed marks of the strings_like_guitar in the top. The top is made of one piece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and now I have found this pencil inscription in the top

 

Fait par Maline

a Mirecourt 1831

 

post-77467-0-13376900-1459075592_thumb.jpg

 

Then the search of what Maline could made this violin is about:

Guillaume MALINE (1792-1859) (39 years old when made the violin) but he was only Facteur d´archet

Etienne Charles MALINE (1814-1839) (17 years old when made the violin)

Charles Isidore MALINE (1815-1846) (16 years old when made the violin)

 

what do you think?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
J-G   

A beautiful thing! Presumably the builder also made guitars: pin bridge, ivory edge-binding (ruined by a chin rest?). Any guitar-style bracing inside?

 

The black sheep of the Maline family? :)  (Like the guitar-building Panormo in London.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ctanzio   

Is there a hole at the bottom of the violin to accept a tail piece pin? Those small, tear-dropped shaped inlays on the table look like they were designed to accept string knots in lieu of a tail piece. An interesting design choice if true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a pretty standard "Chanot" style violin, the strings would originally have been threaded straight through the table with some inserts (hence the teardrop holes which have been filled). There would have been no tailpin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am now working on this violin and searching info about Chanot model violins I found this kind of bridges...

post-77467-0-15426200-1461228094_thumb.jpg

I am thinking doing one like this for my Maline....
I had done some proofs with chinese bridges and I think it would be done marking the line in an standard bridge, cutting it in the manner of this one...
What do you think?

 

Here you have more examples of Chanot bridges...

 

post-77467-0-55568800-1461228125_thumb.jpgpost-77467-0-92249500-1461228150_thumb.jpgpost-77467-0-11248300-1461228158_thumb.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And now that the violin is playable and sound very loud but also too open....

what about the soundpost?

I had read that the original CHANOT has the soundpost in front of the bridge, not like usual in the back of the bridge... (hmm, not near the tailpiece...in the other side of the bridge, close to the fingerboard)

I have been seeing the inside violin and it looks like in this position it has marks like ones marked by a soundpost...
post-77467-0-86070800-1462480840_thumb.jpg
Maybe have I to try a soundpost in this position?

I read about the bass bar in the center of the violin, but mine has it in its normal position...

what do you think?

thank you.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's looking really nice, but I wouldn't expect too much of the sound ... there's a reason why this innovation didn't catch on!

There has been some discussion about putting the soundpost in front of the bridge - it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. But no harm in trying it ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally the soundpost did not make any difference ... in front or rear the bridge is the same sound... not better performance.

Now my question is what string length have I to use?

The violin back is 37 cm... and I find that a long string length give the violin a better sound... deepest and bigger, with more harmonics.

I have calculated and tried around 33,3 cm of string length.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how much the bound ff-holes and possibly the body binding effects the sound production.  I like the brown/red shade of varnish.

 

Anyway, try this since you didn't leave a neck length.  

 

Nut to front edge of belly for the neck length.  

Divide the neck length by two.

Then multiply the divided length by three to come up with the 2;3 ratio for bridge placement, if you need to be technical with it.

 

Viola specs say a 3/4 size viola is 356mm and a 4/4 viola is 390-405mm body length.  So you have a big violin or a small viola.  Neck lengths should be 130mm 3/4 and 140mm 4/4 viola and again, it looks real good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thank you.

 

in this violin the nut to bridge is 13,25mm

Then the Edge to bridge must be 19.875mm

With this parameters the string lenght goes to 33.6mm ... For me is ok because I am a viola player.

The violin is beginning to sound very good... strange sound, but good. I have to show it to some violinist friends and hear what they say.

 

If we think on it like a small viola, what measure for the soundpost diameter? 6.5mm or more?

 

Here more pictures... I need strings longers or with less upper protection for this kind of tail piece ..  any idea?

 

The violin is marked with this name in the back near the edge "Ange Paillard" and in the scroll "Paillard"

Any idea?

 

 

post-77467-0-63136300-1463160810_thumb.jpgpost-77467-0-24219400-1463160820_thumb.jpgpost-77467-0-31475400-1463160826_thumb.jpgpost-77467-0-16088400-1463160838_thumb.jpgpost-77467-0-52436700-1463160851_thumb.jpgpost-77467-0-45779000-1463160968_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my MALINE measures in comparation with 2 original Chanot in the NMM of South Dakota.

 

 

Violin by Chanot & Lété, Paris, 1819

Violin by Chanot & Lété Workshop, Paris, ca. 1819

Fait par MALINE a Mirecourt 1831

Stop length:  190 mm

Stop length:  199 mm

Stop length:  198 mm

Vibrating string length:  327 mm

Vibrating string length:  338 mm

Vibrating string length:  336 mm

Original neck length (bottom of nut to ribs): 131 mm

Original neck length (bottom of nut to ribs): 136 mm

Original neck length (bottom of nut to ribs): 132 mm

Upper bout width:  168 mm

Upper bout width:  167 mm

Upper bout width:  167 mm

Center bout width:  107 mm

Center bout width:  110 mm

Center bout width:  115 mm

Lower bout width:  209 mm

Lower bout width:  211 mm

Lower bout width:  212 mm

Back length:  370 mm

Back length: 370 mm 

Back length: 370 mm

Rib height:32-34 mm

Rib height:  31 mm

Rib height:  31 mm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd leave the soundpost at 6.5mm mostly because I wouldn't have a reason for a thinner or thicker one.

 

Chanot's original model had the bassbar right on the center join.  From what I can make of the post setting it was right under the treble bridge foot.  Then...........in 1819 M. Chanot discarded the tailpiece and tailpin.  The strings were attached like a guitar- thru body.  Then the bar was moved from the centerline.  The new design was shaped like an arch with just the ends on the centerline and the center arc under the bass foot.  The soundpost was set in front of the bridge instead of behind.  The volute of the scroll was turned back instead of forward.  A full description may be found in the "Description des Machines et Procedes Specifies dans les Brevets d'Invention", tome xv p. 161 Paris 1828.  Good luck finding that one.

 

ribs 1/12th thick, no linings, soundpost behind the bridge as an ordinary violin except more to the right.  Went back to tailpiece and pin because of strain on the belly.  Made the sound holes thinking that the f shape of regular violins cut to many fibers hindering the number of lengthwise fibers.  

 

Not sure if Heron-Allen was impressed or not but he mentions the Chanot style was put up against an Italian master violin and was pronounced equal, if not superior.  M Lefebvre player.  I don't know how you would find out if yours was patterned exactly like Chanot's or just made to look like one, be careful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

et voila!

Here is "Description des Machines et Procedes Specifies dans les Brevets d'Invention", tome xv p. 161 Paris 1828

 

https://books.google.es/books?id=LGIasLyldyMC&pg=PA172&dq=%22Description+des+Machines+et+Procedes+Specifies+dans+les+Brevets+d%27Invention%22+chanot&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim-oDiltjMAhXIOxoKHYkKAx4Q6AEIJjAB#v=onepage&q=%22Description%20des%20Machines%20et%20Procedes%20Specifies%20dans%20les%20Brevets%20d%27Invention%22%20chanot&f=false

 

My violin has linings, and the bassbar was in the normal position violin position. it is as large as it can touch the holes of the primitive strings holders (as seen in the picture of 5th post).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I am trying to make the violin like it could be originally. I have made a like-guitar bridge and buy 4 pins. My problems is to glue the ebony piece over the varnish.

In origin it could be like this one:

1287ChanotviolinlowerboutsfrontLG.jpg.968bc0eb6d420c6bc2951f90e27b7f5f.jpg

But mine has not traces of a piece glued in this place.

Now I have try to glue a piece of ebony like this one but the hide glue do not glue. I look and the guitar has not varnish under this piece....

How I have to do to glue this piece in my violin?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion Jan - hopefully Michael N. or Stephen will show up and mention to you on how to go about strengthening the underneath side inside the belly.  Bracing or a decent size patch of wood or both.

I'm thinking the reason for the soundpost being put in front of the bridge originally is to keep the belly from collapsing.   Instead of a pin and tailpiece set up like a regular violin allowing a sort of even pressured downforce I'm thinking the pins and bridge that you want to do now will actually start pulling up the belly at that location.

 Look at the two right plugged holes from before.  I see what may be hairline cracks repaired.   Look inside - that rough area around the filled pins was more than likely the bridge pad.  That is a must have but if that doesn't provide the strength for the entire area then it may me like Martin said before - a poor design.

You may need some sort of mandolin or archtop guitar bracing ideas, maybe even uke bracing ideas to avoid potential catastrophe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Uncle Duke,

If I understood you, you say that it is possible that it has piece of wood under the plate not on the plate...

I have seen some Chanot model violins and all has the piece of wood (like guitar bridge) on the plate...

Then my question is how I could glue it to the plate if it is varnished... hide glue could glue over varnish? Have I to take off the varnish? another method?

In guitars I see that it has no varnish under the bridge....

04.thumb.jpg.4e18e1ebc3b5aca8614d7f65c6bd14de.jpg

10395Chanotviolaportrait2LG.jpg.dac8dd200996a7e4afede6447a3cef92.jpg10011ChanotviolinfrontLG.jpg.e745f7218a6958d7c25e71158e8f283d.jpg1287ChanotviolinpinholderLG.jpg.ff316cad353e37d2b243f109fb176fe2.jpg

08.thumb.jpg.116a192847fc2cc5e9f03fdefaa6f684.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/13/2016 at 5:43 PM, uncle duke said:

  Went back to tailpiece and pin because of strain on the belly.  

I realize yours is not a Chanot but you should remember and consider the above words before going back to pins. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.