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Remon

Tortoise - Gold mounted J.B. Vuillaime stamped Violin bow ID (Swan head)

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Hi!

 

I am trying to find out where this particular bow could have been made. It is a fine bow made of beautiful materials. It truly brings out a wonderful sound out of my violin when I compare it to my other bows..

 

I would very much appreciate some thoughts / suggestions about where it could been made..


https://www.flickr.com/photos/139425368@N03/shares/r6k3N7

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The head reminiscent of Lafleur? 

I might have thought maybe cello bow if seen in isolation.

I agree.. The head is reminding me of Lafleur as well..

The frog is cut deeper then I often see on violin bows. I also find this feature back on a few examples of Lafleur bows..

The bow is quiet heavy being 64 grams but still plays great..

 

The attention to detail is wonderful I think, the screw for instance has tortoiseshell in the middle section as well..

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Thanks for the input Kevin and Chris!

I'm eager to learn :), may i ask Chris what it is about the stamp that makes you think it's facsimile?

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I agree with Nathan - you should take this to someone for an appraisal.

The stamp looks right to me, although maybe in a slightly unexpected place - normally nearer the lapping. It's not the most common stamp but the wonkiness is spot on. The swan head appears on Vuillaume bows, the style of frog also appears on Vuillaume bows, even with a rather square ferrule. The head chamfers seem a bit narrow but the photos aren't ideal. 

However, a gold and tortoiseshell Vuillaume is something well worth faking, and there are a couple of things which seem slightly out of place.

Very keen to hear how you get on - why not send photos to Isaac Salchow or Paul Childs?

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This is just my personal opinion, I am no expert.. the stamp should be next to the thumbleather. The pins are bigger than i usually see, the frog's boddy is a bit wide making the back heeplate appear smaller in width, the parisian eye is big the eye in the button is very small (usually it almost fully covers the button so without any black visible)

 

If I recall correctly, Lafleur did not work for Vuillaume, Lafleur's heads are usually more elegant and the throat slants earlier, this head is more like a small cello head and not like the typical lafleur head see photo attached. The decorgement is lafleur, it's usually very deep but this bow has a repair on the tongue which seems to have been broken off before? Of course judging a bow from photo's if difficult.. show it to an expert.

 

It looks like a nice playing bow and the wood looks good as well.

post-32119-0-84999000-1458481281_thumb.jpg

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Yes this is characteristic of the JB Vuillaume brand - however I agree with Christian about the positioning, in fact I mentioned this as a concern in post 9.

post-34919-0-07391700-1458504480_thumb.jpg

 

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Martin

I just came in to the shop for something and looked at some Vuillaume bow photos. I see exactly what you are talking about with the stamp. It is not just a misalignment but the Vuillaume is typed in a slight arc rather than straight. Interestingly enough The Vuillaume a Paris stamp seems to have the name curved in the other direction but both look quite deliberate. Amazing the things one misses if one is not betting with their own chips!

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I agree with Nathan - you should take this to someone for an appraisal.

The stamp looks right to me, although maybe in a slightly unexpected place - normally nearer the lapping. It's not the most common stamp but the wonkiness is spot on. The swan head appears on Vuillaume bows, the style of frog also appears on Vuillaume bows, even with a rather square ferrule. The head chamfers seem a bit narrow but the photos aren't ideal. 

However, a gold and tortoiseshell Vuillaume is something well worth faking, and there are a couple of things which seem slightly out of place.

Very keen to hear how you get on - why not send photos to Isaac Salchow or Paul Childs?

Very interesting Martin.. Thank you so much for your input, appreciate it a lot.

 

I send an email to Mr. Childs earlier, but I only send 2 "main" picture's at that time which did not show much detail. Those pictures were also taken inside which made the wood look different..

I received the response that he did not believe it was anything important..

 

I send an new email this evening with a link to the new picture's, Mr. Childs wrote earlier that he will be out of office til the 1st of april..

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Very nice looking bow and well worth taking to an expert for an opinion and appraisal. Where are you located? 

 

Thank you for the suggestion!

I live close to Stavanger, south-west Norway.

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This is just my personal opinion, I am no expert.. the stamp should be next to the thumbleather. The pins are bigger than i usually see, the frog's boddy is a bit wide making the back heeplate appear smaller in width, the parisian eye is big the eye in the button is very small (usually it almost fully covers the button so without any black visible)

 

If I recall correctly, Lafleur did not work for Vuillaume, Lafleur's heads are usually more elegant and the throat slants earlier, this head is more like a small cello head and not like the typical lafleur head see photo attached. The decorgement is lafleur, it's usually very deep but this bow has a repair on the tongue which seems to have been broken off before? Of course judging a bow from photo's if difficult.. show it to an expert.

 

It looks like a nice playing bow and the wood looks good as well.

Thanks Chris.. I'll try to show it to an expert in the near future.. I'm not sure about the repair at the tongue, think it's a odd place for a crack to appear..

 

Yes this is characteristic of the JB Vuillaume brand - however I agree with Christian about the positioning, in fact I mentioned this as a concern in post 9.

attachicon.gifvuillaume-stamp.jpg

That's a very nice detailed picture. I was looking on the internet for some time trying to a picture with the J.B. stamp in detail..

Thank you..

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I dicided to send the bow to Paris for a valuation.

 

Both Mr. Raffin and Mr. Millant have inspected it.

 

The outcome was that the stick is modern, 30 - 50 years, and the frog and adjuster are old (I don´t have a age indication for these unfortunately).

The identity of the stick is unknown, the frog and button are from Mirecourt according to Mr. Millant.

 

It was not what I expected, the stick looked older to me, but; lesson learned, should be more aware next time..

 

It is still a very nice playing bow, well crafted in my opinion with still a little history with the older gold mounted frog and adjuster from Mirecourt.

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I am not sure about a reasonable value for this bow after these valuations, but i am willing to take offers if someone would be interested.

 

Perhaps someone from the forum could help with a ball park estimation..

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What did they say about origin of the stamp? I wonder if a curved lettering would be easier to center on the facet of a stick than a straight one. The eyes have had some serious repairs. there is and extra off center ring around the dot. The tongue also has been repaired perhaps adding to the look of the depth of the throat?

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Im not sure about the origin of the stamp unfortunately, haven't received information about that specifically. The stick itself is max. 50 years old according to Mr. Millant..  I really love to know / find out if the stick comes from France as well..

 

Yes, the frog seems to have to recieved a couple of repairs over the years..

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Can you show a photo of the mortise of the stick? If raffin or millant didnt say anything about the stick it is likely german or chinese cause if it's french they would've said so.

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The bow is still in Paris at the moment, but i will take a picture when it arrives back.

Mm, well, i recieved the anwser that since it is a copy that it not possible to find out where the stick has been made.. So, i guess it could be anything at this point..

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