Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Rehairing


cellocelloareyouthere
 Share

Recommended Posts

...If i buy some [hanks] then what do you suggest is something i look for? Are there certain things i should really be careful about? Such as how it is sent to me? I saw one guy hermatically seals his hair packaging when he sends it. If they send it in a straight packaging etc, so it reduces the risk of coils. When i looked for a hair source before so many pictures appeared of hanks of hair in ziplok bags, which i found a little strange... this was generally coiled, so thats why i thought maybe it was ok to coil it very finely.

 

It doesn't need to be hermetically sealed or straight, but it should be dry.  Coiled in a Ziploc bag is fine.  I can think of two things to watch out for when using individual hanks that you have bought:  1.  Sometimes the hanks you buy contain too much hair for one bow.  You should to be able to measure the amount of hair in the hank you bought so you can take some out if it's too much.  2.  The hanks that you buy are often held together with knots that are too big and/or insecure.  You should be able to tie a knot around the hair that is secure and small enough to easily fit in the bow mortises.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hardly think the term "stallion" used to describe an intact male horse...which it is by definition ...can be deemed "careless use".

I'd suggest that the racing industry has misappropriated the term which is now part of its jargon.

Or are you suggesting that the registered purebreds we bred, raised and showed in both conformation and performance classes are somehow less?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would imagine that any hair that came from a male horse would be called stallion hair.

I would have thought that the horses intended for meat would be gelded , to prevent the meat from being tainted. It would surprise me if the herds weren't managed as cattle are here , breeding stallions left intact , and the rest cut. Brood mares producing foals and milk.

So tbere would be an abundance of male hair, if someone thought it worth putting it aside.

I use Sowdens hair. His Canadian (green) Mongolian (blue) and Mongolian stallion (gold).

I'm pretty sure I'm not being sold a pup. Stallion hair is not a myth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Despite all the horsing around I'm pretty sure the bulk of the hair we use comes from slaughter houses. It takes sorting through a heck of a lot of hair to come up with a pound of high quality bow hair. I have two grades which I use. One is billed as Canadian from Sowden and is rediculously expensive and worth every penny. The " regular" hair is about half as expensive but I have to cull about 10% of the hairs. It is still better than my competitors use but the pros appreciate the best grade.

 

Great, thanks for the advice. Can i ask what it is about Sowden's Canadian hair that makes it so good? Also, where is your "regular" hair from? What is the difference... apart from having to cull the 10% of it? I had a little look on Sowden's website, and as far as i can tell, he receives horse hair, and then he dresses it (more washing, and refining it to remove the incorrect sizes and damaged hair) to a state where you could put it straight into a bow without needing to redress it at all. 

 

It doesn't need to be hermetically sealed or straight, but it should be dry.  Coiled in a Ziploc bag is fine.  I can think of two things to watch out for when using individual hanks that you have bought:  1.  Sometimes the hanks you buy contain too much hair for one bow.  You should to be able to measure the amount of hair in the hank you bought so you can take some out if it's too much.  2.  The hanks that you buy are often held together with knots that are too big and/or insecure.  You should be able to tie a knot around the hair that is secure and small enough to easily fit in the bow mortises.

 

Thanks for the advice too, regarding 1. Being supplied with too much isn't so bad, at least you can be selective over the exact amount you want, and aren't left with too few hairs. 2. My only concern when i tie a knot around it is that i damage the hair if i pull too hard... or is horse hair resillient enough that i don't need to worry about pulling the knot around the hank too hard?

Just keeping it dry is the biggest problem right? I don't need to worry so much about it being coiled. The reason i said about the hermetically sealed bag is because i read that the humidity of the hair is very important, and that the change in humidity can really effect the properties of the hair? But is this less important than just making sure the hair is kept dry from the time i have dried it from washing, until the time i need it for the bow?

Thanks again :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Re: Mat Roop - Thanks for the feedback, what does the glycerine do? Is the wash three times over just to make sure you get every little piece of dirt out of the tail etc?

 

The 3 washes are to get thru the sometimes thick build up of body fat. The glycerine solution is to provide a modicum of conditioner to counteract the shampoo and yet not enough to affect rosin takeup. I learned that trick years ago here on Maestronet. Although not necessary, it is a nice touch. IIRC it came from someone from the Pacewicz shop... if I'm wrong forgive me :) 

 

Cheers, Mat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always thought that the process of sealing bulk hair when being shipped is to control the environment of the hair... ie keep out the bugs, mould, moisture etc... and retain the "fresh" smell. For individual hanks, ziplock bags are a good alternative.

 Cheers, Mat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always thought that the process of sealing bulk hair when being shipped is to control the environment of the hair... ie keep out the bugs, mould, moisture etc... and retain the "fresh" smell. For individual hanks, ziplock bags are a good alternative.

 Cheers, Mat

 

Do you think it is possible to coil a bundle at all? Even if you just try and fold it or coil it in half or something? I've never tried before, so i don't know how easy it is to effectively space save if i take a bundle?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As you snip the little bundles of hair, line up the snipped ends fairly carefully and tie them all together with strong thread. This will be the frog end when you rehair the bow. You can coil it up and pop it in a bag until you want to clean and sort it.

Remember that this stuff has been hanging out of the back end of a horse in all weathers for several years, used as a fly swat , pissed on , rolled in the mud , scratched on the fence, brushed with a curry comb and a million other things.

It's pretty tough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

...Being supplied with too much isn't so bad, at least you can be selective over the exact amount you want, and aren't left with too few hairs....

 

Right.  The only problem would be if you tried to cram too much hair in the bow.

 

Many years ago, the individual hanks I was buying contained enough hair to do one and a half violin bows.  This meant that I could buy 10 hanks and rehair 15 bows.

 

 

...My only concern when i tie a knot around it is that i damage the hair if i pull too hard... or is horse hair resillient enough that i don't need to worry about pulling the knot around the hank too hard?...

 
You do not have to worry about that.  Any thread that you might use would break before you pulled it tight enough to damage the hair.  Some people even use thin metal wire, instead of thread, with no problems.
 

 

...Just keeping it dry is the biggest problem right?...The reason i said about the hermetically sealed bag is because i read that the humidity of the hair is very important, and that the change in humidity can really effect the properties of the hair? But is this less important than just making sure the hair is kept dry from the time i have dried it from washing, until the time i need it for the bow?...

 

If the hair is going to be enclosed in a plastic bag, it just needs to be dry enough so that it doesn't grow mold or rot in the bag.  Hair that has dried out it the air will be dry enough to put in a plastic bag or dry enough to put in a bow. 

 

For our purposes, the only significant property of hair that is affected by humidity is length.  As the ambient humidity changes the length of the hair changes.   This should be accounted for when the hair is put it the bow, but it is not a concern in storing hair (as long as it's not so wet that it will grow mold or rot).

 

 

Do you think it is possible to coil a bundle at all?...

 

It depends on the size of the bundle.  A hank for one bow is easily coiled; a kilogram bundle is not so easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you think it is possible to coil a bundle at all? Even if you just try and fold it or coil it in half or something? I've never tried before, so i don't know how easy it is to effectively space save if i take a bundle?

Not sure what you mean by a bundle... A hank (enough for 1 bow ) is easily coiled to a 4 or 5" dia. A 1/2 or 1 pound bundle could easily be coiled to fit inside the perimeter of an airline carry on sized luggage assuming you tie at one end only. 

Cheers, Mat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm currently looking to make a rehair gauge. However i won't be taking my bow with me when i go to my friends ranch, so i'm not sure how much hair i should take exactly. Is there a rough guide as to how many hairs there are in a bow (I know each bow is different etc though), or maybe how many grams of hair (I saw on Sowden's fathers website that he sells his hair like 9g for a Cello) etc. Just trying to "gauge" how much is enough hair to cut off the horse etc. I don't want to be left with too little, but also i don't want to take too much that the hair is just sitting around idol, when it could have stayed on the horse's tail! haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember that this stuff has been hanging out of the back end of a horse in all weathers for several years, used as a fly swat , pissed on , rolled in the mud , scratched on the fence, brushed with a curry comb and a million other things.

 

 

NITPICK ALERT:(and there is probably a joke there somewhere ...): a curry comb is not ( or should not be) used for combing the tail of a horse ... the implement for this purpose is called a dandy brush. Apologies for all the irrelevant equine pedantry..,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since we're nitpicking...I'm surprised you're not using your fingers!  :ph34r:

 

The race horse industry in Scotland must be very different than the rest of world. :)

 

While you could use a dandy (or anything you want to) on a tail...it's best for brushing the coat after currying...and before a final go-over with a body brush.  Although unless we're showing, we don't bother with anything other than the curry and the dandy.

 

For tails (and manes) we use the latest technology.  Easier and less hair breaking if you don't rush.

post-48723-0-74975800-1457790875_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of using your fingers, should Cellocelloareyououtthere be snipping at a horse''s tail at all, or should he be  pulling the hairs out by the roots? That's what the horsey people around here do when they want to thin out a tail or mane.

 

Sorry about the curry comb thing, I should have done my homework before posting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who asked about why Sowden hair is so good It is more uniform in thickness and has very few kinked twisted or otherwise unsuitable hairs . I think it is just sorted and selected over and over. I have also gotten good hair from Steve Beckley in California who  sells all sorts of bow making supplies. The problem with a lot of suppliers is consistency and it's a pain to order $500 worth of hair and then start getting negative reports when you have already rehaired 50 or 60 bows with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...