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Advocatus Diaboli

Strad (and other) models database?

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I also have difficulties seeing consistent differences between PG and G.

My impression is that the difference is more in the placement of the ffs (top holes wider apart, or rather closer to the outline) than in the actual outline. Maybe G is slightly longer at the bottom, but I'm not even so sure of that.

My very personal aesthetical preference goes to the P violins, the early ones with the long corners.

If someone starts a xls file and shares it (any chance it would work on a large scale with Dropbox or Google drive?) I'll be happy to pitch in, starting Monday...

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"Starting Monday" seems to be universal. :)

I should have some mould drawings ready to upload by then. What file types do people want? I usually do PDFs, but can do SVG, DXF, AI... I want to stay away from raster formats. Printed on transparencies, the mould drawings could be used on any at-scale posters.

Pages sizes? I usually do US Letter & Legal, and A4, but A4 is a bit narrow for moulds. A3? Tabloid?

We also need definitive mould sizes and authors, and the list of Strads, with dates and at least LoB, plus photos (back plate/fondo preferred?). X-rays and CT scans would be ideal.

Anything else?

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I also have difficulties seeing consistent differences between PG and G.

My impression is that the difference is more in the placement of the ffs (top holes wider apart, or rather closer to the outline) than in the actual outline. Maybe G is slightly longer at the bottom, but I'm not even so sure of that.

My very personal aesthetical preference goes to the P violins, the early ones with the long corners.

If someone starts a xls file and shares it (any chance it would work on a large scale with Dropbox or Google drive?) I'll be happy to pitch in, starting Monday...

 

Geometrically, the G and PG are extremely similar down to the lower corners.  The big difference is in the lower bout: the widest point of the bout is shifted downwards very slightly, and the shape of the lower bout is slightly different.

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It's been said before on this forum, but worth repeating: The Denis book has great scans of the majority of Strads moulds. But more importantly, working through the drawing techniques presented in the book will arm you with a lot of infoabout the "how and why" concerning the outlines.(And not just Strad) It's a good bit of work,but its fantastic eye training and a fascinating theory. 

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Just to stir things up a bit, here is a list of Strad violins from 1700-1721 with the geometrical form (thanks Mike!) match.  I'm continuing to work on the list, and once I've finished all the instruments in my archive I'll go through and check measurements against the mold I think it is...  Any corrections are welcome!

 

Strad model database draft.pdf

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Hey gang. There is a difference between a mold (mould) and a form. They are not the same thing.  Strad made forms as S. Pollens and many others would tell you. 

 

On my first day as a tool & die apprentice my father explained the difference: A form bends material such as metal or wood. Molding refers to shaping a material that not fully liquid (soft plastic). Fully liquid materials are shaped in a casting (molten metal).

 

Using the right terminology is a sign of a knowledgeable maker. Trust me on this one.  ;) I am only trying to make you look good.

 

Happy New Year

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Just to stir things up a bit, here is a list of Strad violins from 1700-1721 with the geometrical form (thanks Mike!) match.  I'm continuing to work on the list, and once I've finished all the instruments in my archive I'll go through and check measurements against the mold I think it is...  Any corrections are welcome!

 

attachicon.gifStrad model database draft.pdf

Seriously impressed. :o

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That is good and correct Italian.

I've often wondered why we don't use more Italian terms... But that might be because of my Italian edition of Sacconi, which forced me to figure them out. Forma, fondo, tavola, ponticello all roll off my tongue, like pasta sauce dribbling down my chin. :lol:

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Just a rough count from Advocatus Diaboli's list there are three times as many P and G molds as PG's. Like Addie, very impressed. Looks like certain time periods he favored certain molds.

 

Very much so!  Pre-1700 is a mess....  Again, this is just the geometrical analysis: no measurements were used.  That will be for round 2....

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Just a rough count from Advocatus Diaboli's list there are three times as many P and G molds as PG's. Like Addie, very impressed. Looks like certain time periods he favored certain molds.

 

 

Very much so!  Pre-1700 is a mess....  Again, this is just the geometrical analysis: no measurements were used.  That will be for round 2....

This is what I am interested in, not the dimensions of the forms. I can get those with great accuracy elsewhere. Let's catalog what the experts have ASSIGNED.

 

Thanks Guys, This is good.

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In case anyone is interested, I see some evidence that there was at least one other P form than we still have (the P(B) is geometrically completely different from the P) that was being used relatively early on, although I haven't gotten back far enough to see when it first appeared.  Almost all of the G form instruments seem to be off of the same form (MS49), and the few that are different are most likely just severely distorted.  I also think there were two different PG forms.  The second one seems to appear in the early 1720s. 

 

Let's catalog what the experts have ASSIGNED.

 

Note that with a few exceptions, these are instruments that I have assigned, not experts.

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In case anyone is interested, I see some evidence that there was at least one other P form than we still have (the P( B) is geometrically completely different from the P) that was being used relatively early on, although I haven't gotten back far enough to see when it first appeared.  Almost all of the G form instruments seem to be off of the same form (MS49), and the few that are different are most likely just severely distorted.  I also think there were two different PG forms.  The second one seems to appear in the early 1720s. 

 

 

Note that with a few exceptions, these are instruments that I have assigned, not experts.

The point of references for the attributions is to let the reader decide how valid the assignment is.

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The point of references for the attributions is to let the reader decide how valid the assignment is.

That's why I like to work visually: everybody can judge the validity of the attribution for themselves.

And working at full size, everybody gets a free pattern as well.

The drawback is, it would take me several months to get to the point that A.D. is at.

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That's why I like to work visually: everybody can judge the validity of the attribution for themselves.

And working at full size, everybody gets a free pattern as well.

The drawback is, it would take me several months to get to the point that A.D. is at.

You need the reference, Addie. You can still do your interpretation, but we need to see what that authoritative researchers said, not just what Addie said.

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Yes, of course, but I'll leave that to other researchers, and MNers with serious libraries. And I doubt all Strads have been researched at that level, or at least, that that material has all been published.

In the meantime, I'll carry on with my crayons, and macaroni pictures. Has anyone seen my gold spray paint?

post-35343-0-28002200-1451799735_thumb.jpg

post-35343-0-86948800-1451800084_thumb.jpg

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