Strad (and other) models database?

[JacksonMaberry]

I have had really good luck with printing Addie's drawings at the University library. It is possible that I have gotten very lucky. Using the tabloid sized files, I printed at 100% on 11x17. To check, I measured with a good machinists rule and found the given dimensions checked out. Then I checked them against the Pollens book with a light table. Bingo. 

[JacksonMaberry]

1 hour ago, scordatura said:

Hi Addie. We appreciate your wonderful work. Your kreisler del gesu is very close to the strad and biddulf plans except the shape of the top and bottom. They are a bit short. The strad poster and biddulf agree. 

Does anyone know this instrument personally well enough to provide comment? I have never handled a DG but have heard he was not super consistent on overhang. 

[scordatura]

Played it a few times. From what I remember no large overhangs on top and bottom. Biddulf states overhang at 2.0 to 2.5 at the top and bottom.

This violin has everything for a player (at least for my playing approach). I remember studying the plaster cast that was done by Morel. Compared to all of the instruments there it is far superior for the performer.

[JacksonMaberry]

3 minutes ago, scordatura said:

Played it a few times

Lucky! Considering CT scans evidently exist, perhaps you could get ahold of them for yourself. 

[Andreas Preuss]

First I think the participants should agree on some rules for identifying the moulds from the outline of the instrument. Maybe a kind of checklist would be helpful. Because some moulds are just a small variation to another one it might be impossible to pin it down as the article written by Philip Ihle in the Strad showed quite clearly.

 

[Addie]

21 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

It's difficult to get these PDFs to print at just the right scale. I take them to FedEx to get them printed on their big poster printers. It seems that these industrial printers are set to print slightly over sized, to cover up any edge artifacts or something. It's Like they print at 102.5 %, or something. So I have to scan the printouts several times at different combinations to arrive at just the right size. 

If FedEx doesn't print at the specified size, that's not a file problem.

 

[Addie]

21 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

I have had really good luck with printing Addie's drawings at the University library. It is possible that I have gotten very lucky. Using the tabloid sized files, I printed at 100% on 11x17. To check, I measured with a good machinists rule and found the given dimensions checked out. Then I checked them against the Pollens book with a light table. Bingo. 

Thanks!  I usually only get negative feedback.  

 

[Addie]

21 hours ago, scordatura said:

 I remember studying the plaster cast that was done by Morel. 

I had trouble matching the cast to the ct scan.  Although excellent overall, the edges of the plate casts are not well defined.

[Nick Allen]

2 hours ago, Addie said:

If FedEx doesn't print at the specified size, that's not a file problem.

 

I know this. I just have to check other places out. Possibly an actual dedicated print shop.

[scordatura]

13 hours ago, Addie said:

Thanks!  I usually only get negative feedback.  

 

By the way, I wan't  being negative about your Kreisler outline. I was just putting it out there for accuracy/discussion.  I have already abandoned a halfway done copy of the Ysaye Guarneri when I finally got the Biddulph books. I was horrified how off my outline was. So bad that I abandoned ship. I have vowed to do my research this time before I begin!

I know that you were going with the CT scan. I don't remember if the Kreisler cast was of the top or back. I would guess the top.

You have done a great service to us Addie!

[Addie]

I have seen top and back casts.  The bridge dents are deep!

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

In observance of Addie's passing, Jeff agreed to pin this thread in which Addie shared his talent for creating templates of the forms of Stradivari along with other things.  If anyone did not follow Addie's posts, this is a good place to begin to get to know his substantial contributions to our community.

[HoGo]

I hope this is OK to post here. I put together some basic drawings of Kreisler dG. They are here:

I will try to add and refine them as time permits and post there. You can feel free to add them to the database if you wish.

[Nick Allen]

On 2/10/2020 at 8:18 AM, HoGo said:

I hope this is OK to post here. I put together some basic drawings of Kreisler dG. They are here:

I will try to add and refine them as time permits and post there. You can feel free to add them to the database if you wish.

Can't see 'em my man. 

Edit:NVM. 

[Nick Allen]

On 5/7/2018 at 7:53 AM, scordatura said:

By the way, I wan't  being negative about your Kreisler outline. I was just putting it out there for accuracy/discussion.  I have already abandoned a halfway done copy of the Ysaye Guarneri when I finally got the Biddulph books. I was horrified how off my outline was. So bad that I abandoned ship. I have vowed to do my research this time before I begin!

I know that you were going with the CT scan. I don't remember if the Kreisler cast was of the top or back. I would guess the top.

You have done a great service to us Addie!

I remember reading a Hargrave article about how DG would pack his form out to get different sizes and shapes of instruments. 

[scordatura]

1 hour ago, Nick Allen said:

I remember reading a Hargrave article about how DG would pack his form out to get different sizes and shapes of instruments. 

Yes that would explain the similarity yet differences in his outlines.

[HoGo]

12 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

I remember reading a Hargrave article about how DG would pack his form out to get different sizes and shapes of instruments. 

There,s no need to pack it with anything. You just carve your blocks to whatever shape you want and glue your ribs more loosely with some air gaps. Actually is there any real need to fill the gaps during making in Cremonese way? Perhaps his gluing sucked and the ribs slipped during clamping and result was different shapes (and if the rib slipped askew then some of the differences between top and back shape can be explained as well...)

[Guy Booth]

Has anyone got some ‘side’ diagrams with dimensions (like this one) of iconic violins, for comparison? Thanks! 

[francoisdenis]

The attached file compares in red the verso side of the original CV MS 205 scan and in black the anonymous sharing of the same form- There is a pb (always risky to use and spread unsourced info...)

Forma CV strad MS 205 addieblack Original red.pdf

[Nick Allen]

On 9/30/2021 at 4:39 AM, Guy Booth said:

Has anyone got some ‘side’ diagrams with dimensions (like this one) of iconic violins, for comparison? Thanks! 

These aren't very useful, in my opinion. They have more to do with setup and the like, which isn't intrinsic to the violin itself. If you set your necks to the same numbers, which can be quite low sometimes, it probably won't have anything to do with the dynamics of the original. 

[HoGo]

Here are some drawings of Plowden delGesu I posted recently.

 

[Davide Sora]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:23 AM, francoisdenis said:

The attached file compares in red the verso side of the original CV MS 205 scan and in black the anonymous sharing of the same form- There is a pb (always risky to use and spread unsourced info...)

Forma CV strad MS 205 addieblack Original red.pdf 382.07 kB · 22 downloads

Regarding the viola CV form, I was at the museum last month in the context of the Casa Stradivari violin-making masterclass, to study Stradivari's viola forms, which will be the theme of the next few months of the course. It turns out that the CV form is too short to fit most Stradivari violas (such as the Toscana 1690, which is the first viola for which this form was made, as per the original inscription of Stradivari himself), but fits perfectly the Gibson 1734 viola, that is a bit shorter than the Toscana. We concluded that this form was modified (perhaps by his sons) to make the Gibson viola, to save the time of making a new, shorter form. The modification seems to only affect the lower bout. This could shed light on the fact that the system of proportional geometric design probably in vogue with the Amati was now abandoned in favor of a more pragmatic approach, or simply less attention to aesthetics.

Just my two cents, hoping this "update" might be helpful to someone.

[HoGo]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:23 AM, francoisdenis said:

The attached file compares in red the verso side of the original CV MS 205 scan and in black the anonymous sharing of the same form- There is a pb (always risky to use and spread unsourced info...)

Forma CV strad MS 205 addieblack Original red.pdf 382.07 kB · 25 downloads

I wonder which one is correct and how it was "calibrated"?

I did a lot of work from scans and photographs and CT's and published posters and measurements etc and every source can (and usually does) contain errors and/or distortions. I spent lots of time combining sources to get "best bet" drawings but would not dare to claim their exactness.

[francoisdenis]

On 5/22/2024 at 3:12 PM, Davide Sora said:

Regarding the viola CV form, I was at the museum last month in the context of the Casa Stradivari violin-making masterclass, to study Stradivari's viola forms, which will be the theme of the next few months of the course. It turns out that the CV form is too short to fit most Stradivari violas (such as the Toscana 1690, which is the first viola for which this form was made, as per the original inscription of Stradivari himself), but fits perfectly the Gibson 1734 viola, that is a bit shorter than the Toscana. We concluded that this form was modified (perhaps by his sons) to make the Gibson viola, to save the time of making a new, shorter form. The modification seems to only affect the lower bout. This could shed light on the fact that the system of proportional geometric design probably in vogue with the Amati was now abandoned in favor of a more pragmatic approach, or simply less attention to aesthetics.

Just my two cents, hoping this "update" might be helpful to someone.

Hi David, I read your quote only now ... yes I agree, I did the same statement too, the CV MS 205 is one the forms that we can assume with some certitude  that it has been retouched - furthermore, the rather impressive asymmetry brings water to your mill about the so called "pragmatic" approach.