Rue Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Reading an article in the December "The Strad" has me wondering about the f-hole. As I look at the minutely "asymmetrical" example provided by the Brusilow Del Gesu...all I can come up with is "seriously?". We...in this generation...are guilty of over thinking everything. ..especially in hindsight. Taking a page from my knitting (yes...I know and I don't care )...I make mistakes that I don't correct...I eyeball...I will chance doing something different if experience suggests I can safely predict the outcome. Anyone who knits better than I do might see those aberrations. ..and anyone who doesn't - won't. I can't overthink every step of every project . ..or nothing would ever be completed. Isn't it more than likely Del Gesu just eyeballed the f-holes and if he saw that they were a bit off just shrugged his shoulders and said " Meh! Good enough! Who is ever going to notice? "
DGV Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 The violin is an asymmetrical instrument. Obsession with symmetric outlines and f-holes is a result of being obsessed.
David Burgess Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Over thinking the f-hole? I wonder how celibacy ties into that. Does it make it better or worse?
Rue Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Posted December 18, 2015 Dunno! That's why I am here! To ask the experts!
David Burgess Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Dunno! That's why I am here! To ask the experts! Tie both hands behind my back, and perhaps I could be considered celibate.
Violadamore Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 I wonder how celibacy ties into that. Does it make it better or worse? Dunno! That's why I am here! To ask the experts! This may be the wrong forum to find expertise on that aspect, but still probably superior to "The Fingerboard".
Violadamore Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Tie both hands behind my back, and perhaps I could be considered celibate. Well, now we know what you're overthinking.
Rue Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Posted December 18, 2015 Ask a simple question...and look where it gets you...
Violadamore Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Reading an article in the December "The Strad" has me wondering about the f-hole. As I look at the minutely "asymmetrical" example provided by the Brusilow Del Gesu...all I can come up with is "seriously?". ..................................................... Isn't it more than likely Del Gesu just eyeballed the f-holes and if he saw that they were a bit off just shrugged his shoulders and said " Meh! Good enough! Who is ever going to notice? " My very favorite violin is from an obscure British 19th. C. maker who was dying at the time he made it, and mostly blind by then as well. As far as symmetry goes, everything about it is slightly off-center, which I have carefully preserved. It plays and sounds well despite the imperfections, and was a good enough violin to begin with to sell in a shop for a few pounds and stay in service for over 100 years. Yes, I feel that we moderns go overboard on the extra decimal points.
~ Ben Conover Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Overthinking usually occurs when there's little productivity or creative drive. The old makers didn't suffer that problem it seems.
Nick Allen Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Hmph... Good subject. As a novice, I am often apprehensive to start/do something when it comes to making. But lately, I have just said "F it." It'll turn out however it'll turn out. At least by doing it, it will turn out.
Davide Sora Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Are the lines that matter, not symmetry. If the curves fit together in a harmonious manner, also with those of the rest of the instrument, the work will be fine even with little regard for symmetry. Not an easy task and I think you need to over think about it a lot to get to good results. But you must do it before picking up the knife, then it is better to follow more the feel to lead the cut. And yes, always something comes out.....however, if the symmetry is acceptable in my opinion is better.
MANFIO Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Roger Hargrave, on his article about Del Gesù's methods in Biddulph's book mentions that the position of the upper and lower eyes are consistent in all del Gesù violins, even in the wilder ones.
Davide Sora Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 Roger Hargrave, on his article about Del Gesù's methods in Biddulph's book mentions that the position of the upper and lower eyes are consistent in all del Gesù violins, even in the wilder ones. This is the acceptable symmetry I was talking about....at least a correct placement of the eyes
MaestronetLurker Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 A mentor of mine (who is a prominent maker, and has 30 years+ experience after graduating from violin making school) has some fondness for the asymmetry and says symmetry is overrated. Also advising to treat them like etudes. I'm sure you lose points in competition for fhole asymmetry, but I think there's nothing wrong with a hand made object showing the signs of human imperfection. I doubt there's any real tonal effect to fussing over perfect symmetry. I think the knitting analogy works in this case, who would have thought?
Davide Sora Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 A mentor of mine (who is a prominent maker, and has 30 years+ experience after graduating from violin making school) has some fondness for the asymmetry and says symmetry is overrated. Also advising to treat them like etudes. I'm sure you lose points in competition for fhole asymmetry, but I think there's nothing wrong with a hand made object showing the signs of human imperfection. I doubt there's any real tonal effect to fussing over perfect symmetry. I agree with your dubt that there's any real tonal effect to fussing over perfect symmetry, but not even with the "perfect" asymmetry. I do not like asymmetry when they appear forced, to be elegant should always be spontaneous, and is not so obvious and easy.
~ Ben Conover Posted December 18, 2015 Report Posted December 18, 2015 The old makers used basic geometry to place the f holes etc, when we 'copy' or make new violins we don't need to use their methodsand I think that pretending to work in the manner of a maker who died 300 years agois slightly pointless. :-)Each to their own.
Omobono Posted December 19, 2015 Report Posted December 19, 2015 Tie both hands behind my back, and perhaps I could be considered celibate. Dom Amati would perhaps be the patron of celibate makers? (the term refers, I believe to marital status, rather than necessarily abstinence per se .........) As for asymmetry I guess the plate graduations are the prime example whatever about sound-holes.
Nick Allen Posted December 20, 2015 Report Posted December 20, 2015 My theory is that with experience you eventually get to a point where your IDGAF moments have a nice look to them.
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