A scoop from the attic or just another German fiddle??

[Qvinen]

Hello! I´m Espen, living in Norway and an hobby luthier. Mostly gluing back fingerboards on children's half violins and 3/4 cellos. But does some restoration, (German violins from about 1900).

 

Last week I came in contact with an elderly man who had prepared his late mothers house for sale. On the attic he had found a violin. He had never seen it before, so he figured it must have been there for more than 50 years. Most likely another German fiddle, I thought. And since the last project is nearly finished, I asked him if I could buy it.

 

First thing I notice is that this violin is in bader shape than I hoped. F holes looks like hell, someone has added a new varnish, but ok, it was a fair price, and at least I can learn something about fixing F holes.

 

Second I notice is that the common 17xx label is NOT from Stradivarius og Amati, and there is a repair text and date. It says Johann Christoph Merz, Klingental, 1780, repairs 18 / 19 something and the text "in Geneva", hmmm...   Promising?  

 

At home in my hobby room the inspection continues.

 

The F holes witch looks more and more like someone has carved them bigger, has been added repair wood, why not make it look fine when you first ad new wood?

And the top seems not to match the linning / bottom shape 100%. Can it be the top from another violin that is added at some point?

 

A quick inspection inside tells me it looks like hell. The top has to come of.

 

Inside there is no real corner blocks. A cheep German after all? In the corner there has beed added some glue / clay? to stiffen the construction. Never seen or heard about that solution. The end block looks like just another pice of wood, the head block looks more what I expected and it has been reinforced at som point... Glue mixed with wood shavings has been used to reinforce some of the innings, lots of glue has beed added around the headblock ... why?

And the top has been repaired absolutely all over... using canvas and glue in sted of wood cleats.

 

So what the h... is this?

 

A cheap German, or a scoop from the attic?

 

Pictures here: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B025oqs3qmKU2P

 

Espen

 

 

[Rue]

Doesn't look promising to me...but that doesn't mean much...

 

My guess (and only a guess)...that it's an inexpensive German trade violin...but even those were in short supply in various locations, so if that's all there was available at the time...someone tried to repair it.  Even I remember when repairing an item actually WAS cheaper than buying new...

 

However, what I am most surprised at is how many 'lost' or forgotten violins there actually are up in attics!

[Don Noon]

However, what I am most surprised at is how many 'lost' or forgotten violins there actually are up in attics!

 

I think that a few years after they are bought new, almost ALL violins, good or bad, end up either in the attic, basement, or under a bed. Tack on a generation, and the probability goes up.

[Ron1]

The label shown says "Klingenthal"

[deans]

I think its later than 1780, Klingenthal could be right though. I am a proponent of fixing up instruments like this, even if it costs more than its worth. But this is one I think I'd punt on. 

[Blank face]

Hi Espen,

 

though I'd like to see some more significant photos from the back, top or scroll it appears to be, as you were assuming, like a kind of cheapish Klingenthal work from the first half of the 19th century.

There are good chances, that the label is genuine here (except the year, which looks like a later addition with the same pencil as the repair inscription), although it isn't really clear to see - a print from this period should have letters all the way a bit impressed into the paper, in opposite to later copies, which have the ink mostly over the surface. Maybe it was once placed at the inside rib and later switched to it's actual place. The "Genua" inscription is more a fancy decoration .

 

A Johann Christoph Merz from Kl. is mentioned by Jalovec, "1800, used brown varnish and unflamed wood".

 

Those type of violin constructed using the "built on the back method" and a through neck without a mould don't need corner blocks at all; the end block has a common shape for this origin, it looks as if it has horizontal grain, which is usually a feature of the Salzkammergut, but can be seen at violins from Saxony sometimes also.

 

IMO it's a more cheapish "trade" violin from the beginning of the mass production, and possibly Merz was just the person who glued his name into it after it was made by some different persons.

But that's not finally to decide by your pics, the same with the question if the belly is original to the rest; a fast produced "built o.t.b." violin has often a not 100% fitting top.

 

Of course there's a lot of messing around with ffs, table cracks etc., and you are the only person who can decide if the work of restoring it is worth the effort, maybe as a "training project", less as a commercial rewarding job..

[Qvinen]

Hi Espen,

 

though I'd like to see some more significant photos from the back, top or scroll it appears to be, as you were assuming, like a kind of cheapish Klingenthal work from the first half of the 19th century.

There are good chances, that the label is genuine here (except the year, which looks like a later addition with the same pencil as the repair inscription), although it isn't really clear to see - a print from this period should have letters all the way a bit impressed into the paper, in opposite to later copies, which have the ink mostly over the surface. Maybe it was once placed at the inside rib and later switched to it's actual place. The "Genua" inscription is more a fancy decoration .

 

A Johann Christoph Merz from Kl. is mentioned by Jalovec, "1800, used brown varnish and unflamed wood".

 

Those type of violin constructed using the "built on the back method" and a through neck without a mould don't need corner blocks at all; the end block has a common shape for this origin, it looks as if it has horizontal grain, which is usually a feature of the Salzkammergut, but can be seen at violins from Saxony sometimes also.

 

IMO it's a more cheapish "trade" violin from the beginning of the mass production, and possibly Merz was just the person who glued his name into it after it was made by some different persons.

But that's not finally to decide by your pics, the same with the question if the belly is original to the rest; a fast produced "built o.t.b." violin has often a not 100% fitting top.

 

Of course there's a lot of messing around with ffs, table cracks etc., and you are the only person who can decide if the work of restoring it is worth the effort, maybe as a "training project", less as a commercial rewarding job..

 

Hello, and thank you for your answer.

 

I have put some more photos in the album, take a look and tell me if there is more you want to see.

 

I agree that the year on the label seems to have been added or corrected. The same seems to be the story about the repair date, here are clearly different writings. Some pencil like the "in Genua" and some pen like "Rippariert av".

But I think as you say that its likely to belive that this label was used as long as Johann C. Merz was in charge. Jalovec mentions Merz connected to the year 1800, then this violin most likely origin from the period around 1800 - 1820.

I have found that a Johann C. Merz junior built violins in 1811... http://www.lauritz.com/no/auksjon/johann-christoph-merz-jun-violin/i3708585/ 

 

I clearly has to read me up on the "built on the back method" But if I understand it right this was a method to more easy and faster build a violin without the corner blocks.

 

Yes, the end block has horisontal grains as you observed.

 

Restoring this might be more work than the value added to the violin. But if it becomes a playable violin of decent quality I think it will be all worth it. If its not a decent instrument when Im finished, I hope that I have learnt something along the way.

[Qvinen]

Some text didn't show, so here is the rest of my answer:

 

I clearly has to read me up on the "built on the back method"   But if I understand it right this was a method to more easy and faster build a violin without the corner blocks.

 

Yes, the end block has horisontal grains as you observed.

 

 

Restoring this might be more work than the value added to the violin. But if it becomes a playable violin of decent quality I think it will be all worth it. If its not a decent instrument when Im finished, I hope that I have learnt something along the way.

[Blank face]

The back looks better than I suspected .

Unfortunately your link doesn't work (for me?).

Reg. construction methods/cornerblockology look here # 46

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/328919-violin-id/page-3#entry594080

[uncle duke]

I think Jandepora brought something close to what you have here Qvinen.  I'd like to see the process of both violins being brought back to life.  His had a case of the worm tracks in the belly.

[Qvinen]

The back looks better than I suspected .

Unfortunately your link doesn't work (for me?).

Reg. construction methods/cornerblockology look here # 46

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/328919-violin-id/page-3#entry594080

 

Thank you for that link.

I now see that the cornerbloks in my last project was only cosmetic I did wonder why they didn't fill the gap.

[Qvinen]

I think Jandepora brought something close to what you have here Qvinen.  I'd like to see the process of both violins being brought back to life.  His had a case of the worm tracks in the belly.

 

I will check out Jandepora´s posts And I´ll post pictures of my work