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plate flexing question


jim mcavoy
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flexing should only be used when building with the "building to stiffness" for new instruments that YOU are making.

good advice and the clue is building to stiffness ....It works for some, but not all

I believe no two builders would use the same technique (flexing)to arrive at a finished violin...not something that can be packaged and sold on the street corner....It is learned at the bench , and only then if any one builder can do it at all!

the trick is to get off home base, some can

And others can't ..... There are other ways to get to the same point

Edited by jim mcavoy
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good advice and the clue is building to stiffness ....It works for some, but not all

I believe no two builders would use the same technique (flexing)to arrive at a finished violin...not something that can be packaged and sold on the street corner....It is learned at the bench , and only then if any one builder can do it at all!

the trick is to get off home base, some can

And others can't ..... There are other ways to get to the same point

I agree, I'd be the first to admit, and be proud of the fact, that really, I have no idea why the things I build sound the way they do, just ideas and thoughts of why. I don't advocate to anyone or think or say "my way is the best" never have never will.

 

I will say that beyond building to stiffness, I pay close attention to range of motion, recoil speed and elasticity. Like I say I use the 3d animations as a guide for the gymnastic routine that I put plates thru, there is also a "Chinese acupressure" thing that I do also

 

Again related to tapping, very simply I try to achieve the lowest bass note possible I can get without causing adverse structural weakness, the next step is in paying attention to the gradient of pitch as "taps" travel from the center out, and do I want that gradient to be symmetrical or not. And when all that is said and done, the end result is a box that will handle X amount spring loaded force and be right to the edge of being just strong enough to consistently stay together and not distort adversely under load, again, just what I do....

 

Somewhat related to fractal thinking, if look at several endeavors, in related and completely unrelated fields, interest's, sports and such we see a somewhat repeated "reality" to a pattern that "things" whatever they may be, are often best, or what we humans consider most memorable or historic when they are taken "right to the edge" but not going over it. A great violin is right at the breaking point, yet at the same time, as if a paradox, no where near it

"

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Again related to tapping, very simply I try to achieve the lowest bass note possible I can get without causing adverse structural weakness, the next step is in paying attention to the gradient of pitch as "taps" travel from the center out, and do I want that gradient to be symmetrical or not. And when all that is said and done, the end result is a box that will handle X amount spring loaded force and be right to the edge of being just strong enough to consistently stay together and not distort adversely under load, again, just what I do....

the procedure here,for me, is with a thimble lightly tap on a dampened plate (you only hear the wood)

To adjust sand or scrape accordingly, It doesn't take much to get an (uniform) increasing or decreasing tap tone .....You are really hearing the taper and the tap tone is rather subtle, and the pitch is quite high

I also use this on a cheap bow that has problems...Quick fix .....(I got this from another member on this forum, who will speak up if he wishes) a few licks with 600 grit sand paper or the same thing with a scraper makes a big change!

soft ground: in concepts, one is adjusting mini-nodes on a progressive spring

Jim

Edited by jim mcavoy
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the procedure here,for me, is with a thimble lightly tap on a dampened plate (you only hear the wood)

To adjust sand or scrape accordingly, It doesn't take much to get an (uniform) increasing or decreasing tap tone .....You are really hearing the taper and the tap tone is rather subtle, and the pitch is quite high

I also use this on a cheap bow that has problems...Quick fix .....(I got this from another member on this forum, who will speak up if he wishes) a few licks with 600 grit sand paper or the same thing with a scraper makes a big change!

soft ground: in concepts, one is adjusting mini-nodes on a progressive spring

Jim

nodes and anti-nodes a super simple explanation :(see watch it)

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/Lesson-4/Nodes-and-Anti-nodes

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1)How do you know when to stop?  2)How do you get an increasing tap tone?

this is bench learning .... make up some practice pieces various sizes and shapes (violin like segments)and play with them

1)First blush...stop when good enough

2) it follows mass and stiffness...try it on a bow (dampened) to see what it is like

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I agree, I'd be the first to admit, and be proud of the fact, that really, I have no idea why the things I build sound the way they do, just ideas and thoughts of why. I don't advocate to anyone or think or say "my way is the best" never have never will.

 

I will say that beyond building to stiffness, I pay close attention to range of motion, recoil speed and elasticity. Like I say I use the 3d animations as a guide for the gymnastic routine that I put plates thru, there is also a "Chinese acupressure" thing that I do also

 

Again related to tapping, very simply I try to achieve the lowest bass note possible I can get without causing adverse structural weakness, the next step is in paying attention to the gradient of pitch as "taps" travel from the center out, and do I want that gradient to be symmetrical or not. And when all that is said and done, the end result is a box that will handle X amount spring loaded force and be right to the edge of being just strong enough to consistently stay together and not distort adversely under load, again, just what I do....

 

Somewhat related to fractal thinking, if look at several endeavors, in related and completely unrelated fields, interest's, sports and such we see a somewhat repeated "reality" to a pattern that "things" whatever they may be, are often best, or what we humans consider most memorable or historic when they are taken "right to the edge" but not going over it. A great violin is right at the breaking point, yet at the same time, as if a paradox, no where near it

"

Fascinating stuff. Can you elaborate on the "Chinese acupressure" process?

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Fascinating stuff. Can you elaborate on the "Chinese acupressure" process?

Well as Davide pointed out, it's hard to be able to flex and or get a feel for certain areas, the "acupressure" I use in two ways, both pushing down on the arch and also pinning it and isolating certain areas with the arch down. Meh' just more "intuition" stuff I guess. I don't really try to quantify or qualify what I'm doing, I just do it, hope for the best and try to learn from my own experiences. MN's a great place to discuss ideas and I just look at it somewhat as a personal journal that I'm letting everybody read.

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Well as Davide pointed out, it's hard to be able to flex and or get a feel for certain areas, the "acupressure" I use in two ways, both pushing down on the arch and also pinning it and isolating certain areas with the arch down. Meh' just more "intuition" stuff I guess. I don't really try to quantify or qualify what I'm doing, I just do it, hope for the best and try to learn from my own experiences. MN's a great place to discuss ideas and I just look at it somewhat as a personal journal that I'm letting everybody read.

perhaps you are simulating the pressure of the strings (to some degree) to see what else moves or doesn't move?(in the static state)...kind of like mini-turning moments? Edited by jim mcavoy
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perhaps you are simulating the pressure of the strings (to some degree) to see what else moves or doesn't move?(in the static state)...kind of like mini-turning moments?

Yes, perhaps something like that. Gymnastics show exaggerated ranges of motion and show certain property characteristics, for example certain woods when bent or flexed will snap right back to where they were, others slowly creep back into pre stressed states,

 

you must have faith that what your are doing makes sense to you, all we can have is hope that it will sound good when done, but above all else you must have love for what it is and to want to keep trying to do it.

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