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Did you buy or make your peg shaver?


murrmac
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Don, I have a small precision lathe and the problem is, you would have to have it set up to do just that one function. The set up time to change it to fit your reamer after another type of use would eventually pay for the Alberti.

 

Most of the shops that I deal with have the Alberti sets- at least that is the one that is mentioned the most.  

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That's interesting Duane, I've got several reamers and I never liked the spiral one as much as I expected . It seems to grab more than the straight fluted ones. I have to ream the ebony "doughnuts" that become the collars of my pegs to fit them on the tapered shafts so a smooth cut is not just important to me but downright painful to my fingers if it isn't.

 

Try reaming mastodon ivory. Of course now with the idiot laws on using it as a non elephant alternative, I won't be having that issue as much. <_<

I don't really like the spiral reamer. I use it for the last turn or two or to clean up a hole that just needs touching up. It is, in my opinion, easier to wander off center with the spiral cut reamer, and i use an old Herdim reamer that is not as sharp, but more controllable-for me-to straighten the holes and do the gross reaming, then touch it up at the end with the sharp spiral reamer

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That's interesting Duane, I've got several reamers and I never liked the spiral one as much as I expected . It seems to grab more than the straight fluted ones.

That's my impression too. If the spiral was in the other direction (pushing out rather than pulling in), perhaps they'd grab less, and I'd be happier with them.

 

 Looking at many of these links, it seems to me that most of these reamers have more than one cutting edge.... but that , surely is not what you want to get a perfectly round hole?

 

The merit of the Stewmac reamer is that it has a single cutting flute, and the rest of the flutes are rounded, which assists in getting a round hole.

 

I would imagine that it is analogous to using a  multi-fluted countersink in a drill press, which can produce a pentagonal rim on the hole , whereas a "snail " countersink produces a perfectly round rim.. 

Neither produces a perfectly round rim, especially when taking flex of the machining apparatus into account.

This matters less in woodwork than metal work, because the last five millimeters or so of peg insertion should be done by turning the reamer backwards anyway, to burnish and compress the wood in the hole, on a pegbox which is sound enough to handle it.

 

The alternative is to let the peg itself burnish and compress the hole, which results in the peg quickly sinking into the pegbox, and the small end sticking out the other side.

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At the VSA convention Matt Noykos had a Berbuer peg shaver that was adjustable and produced essentially a polished surface which was totally amazing imo. The machining on adjustment screws was extremely fine with no backlash (if that's possible). It's not inexpensive but I imagine that it would pay for itself real quick.

The no backlash does seem impossible but that's what it is. I've been very happy with these. They are a bit expensive for the average hobbyist who might make 3 violins in a lifetime and I probably wouldn't recommend them to someone like that, but if you are doing a lot of work, the Berbuers are hard to beat. They paid for themselves very quickly for me. They are especially handy with old stuff where you don't want to touch the pegbox and you just want to touch the pegs up a bit. You have complete control over the taper and depth of cut. I will often take just dust shavings off of one side of the peg in order to fine tune the fit. They really increased my results.

I've tried just about everything on the market and it's not that my results were bad with other shapers (including homemade ones). The results were actually just fine. Most people were fine with my pegs, including some very picky luthiers. But I'd say my results are a notch higher with the Berbuers.

Incidentally, I still kept my Alberti shapers. They are beautifully made and work quite well. I still use them and would still recommend them. I just do the final stretch with the Berbuers.

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Hi All - being an engineer and a frustrated toolmaker, over the years I have made several reamers for special jobs.

 

 A set of three to ream out the chambers in a cylinder that I had made for a S&W revolver, another for a 270 Winchester, one for my cello endpin socket, another for bushing the pegholes, one to ream out the holes in my glider's elevator to take out 0.002" of out-of-round and fit new drive pins.

 

(I was flying at 26 500' and wound the little darling up to an indicated 170 kph (a cautious just-below rough-air-maneuvering speed)  on my way to another patch of wave that was 70 km away. Later in the clubhouse I was examining my barograph trace and realized that I had covered that 70 km in 12 minutes. I went cold all over - I had been flying 180 kph over my glider's Vne - "velocity-never-exceed". The next day I was on the phone to Germany talking to the designer. He was impressed. Said he would check his calculations. I received a letter saying that all was OK - but to check the the elevator as it's connecting tube would have failed in bending if I had reached 400 kph! Boy - did I double check the elevator for any damage. Found the play in the connecting pins. Hence the reamer.)

 

A couple of years back I was asked to fit a new carbon fibre endpin to a cello. The reamer that I had made for my cello was too small for the newer and larger peg holder.There was an urgency for the job so I knocked up a make-do tapered sanding stick. Steel rod glued into a piece of 30 year seasoned myrtle, turn a 1:17 taper, glue on some sandpaper from a very coarse sanding belt and discover that it worked far better than a reamer!

 

post-98-0-05266900-1448486289_thumb.jpg

 

The picture is of another job. The endpin block was a near relative of balsa and the endpin didn't line up with the cello. So I tried to true up the hole only to find that my sanding reamer was too small. In the background you can see the larger one that I knocked up.

 

cheers edi

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Ute Zahn, who teaches at the Red Wing violin school, had some spiral reamers for sale at Oberlin with the spiral going the opposite direction of the Herdim reamers. I didn't try them, but it seems like a great idea.

I have all Herdim reamers and I like them very much. I use both straight and spiral, straight because it is easier to change the angle precisely, and spiral because to finish because it leaves a cleaner hole.

I have Alberti shapers and they are awesome, but now I'm tempted to look into what Matthew recommends. Any excuse to buy more toys, right? :)

M

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Money no object:  get a small precision lathe to turn pegs.

 I already have a small lathe, but I'm not going to set it up just to turn pegs ... no way.. Maybe I should have qualified the "money no object" with "within reason" .

 

 

I don't really like the spiral reamer. I use it for the last turn or two or to clean up a hole that just needs touching up. It is, in my opinion, easier to wander off center with the spiral cut reamer, and i use an old Herdim reamer that is not as sharp, but more controllable-for me-to straighten the holes and do the gross reaming, then touch it up at the end with the sharp spiral reamer

 

I have to say i was flabbergasted to see that the Herdim spiral reamers have a right hand spiral, and (presumably) cut with a clockwise rotation (just like a twist drill). I have never ever  even seen a metal cutting reamer with this conformation, let alone used one.. These invariably have a left hand spiral and are used with a clockwise rotation, otherwise the propensity to grab would be intolerable. So no spiral reamers for me. Looks like the straight Herdim 1;30 is the way to go, along with an  Alberti peg shaver. Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

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post-48078-0-78620200-1448494291_thumb.jpgpost-48078-0-98229000-1448494300_thumb.jpgpost-48078-0-71917400-1448494310_thumb.jpgpost-48078-0-14085800-1448494326_thumb.jpg

post-48078-0-83357600-1448494352_thumb.jpgpost-48078-0-20237100-1448494369_thumb.jpgpost-48078-0-62815200-1448494389_thumb.jpgpost-48078-0-53292200-1448494403_thumb.jpg

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Here is a nice peg shaper designed by Edward Campbell and manufactured by J L machine.

To change the blade angle just reach in the end with an allen wrench and tighten either side.

The adjustment is instant and no fuss. When the blade has reached the end of it's adjustment just

back off the allen screws pull the blade back and start over,,,every few years.

You have to be careful, if the grain is weird it might try to cut round, just a touch with a scraper to straighten it up.

Blade is sharpened at5 degrees, It does violins to cellos, he sold them for $125.00.

I also use herdems for everyday use, they work good enough.

I have had several of the stew mack things pass through my hands over the years,

They will work for some one that wants to make a couple of fiddles,

I pass them on cheap with a warning,

they will work but not for a pro.(I have one now ,,,pm me if you want it)

they are junk, I'm pretty good at making things work but this has too many marks against it,,

blade placement, angle, sloppy back feed,,ect,ect. ect,,I've tried a scraper blade, changed cutting angles,

it either won't cut, or the blade digs in and pulls the peg into the blade, it doesn't cut round.

If it is absolutely perfect you can shave a peg with it but it's not a sexy fun time,,

I like sexy precise tools that are fun to use.

When I shave pegs I have a glass of wine that I dip the pegs in to lubricate them and it really cuts beautiful,

I consider wine machinist oil for wood.

Nobody shaves their face dry do they?

I like straight reamers,, I run them backwards in a drill for the last bit,, 10mm or so, it burnishes the hole real nice.

And ED,

I too have made tapered sandpaper covered reamers, they work marvelous for me also.

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Nobody shaves their face dry do they?

And ED,

I too have made tapered sandpaper covered reamers, they work marvelous for me also.

 

Hi Evan - to answer your question - I do. Been using a straight razor for the past 60 years or so. Eventually you get the hang of keeping a sharp edge :-)

 

Nice to have company on sanding reamers - it can get lonely sometimes.

 

cheers edi.

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I already have a small lathe, but I'm not going to set it up just to turn pegs ... no way.. Maybe I should have qualified the "money no object" with "within reason" .

 

 

 

I have to say i was flabbergasted to see that the Herdim spiral reamers have a right hand spiral, and (presumably) cut with a clockwise rotation (just like a twist drill). I have never ever  even seen a metal cutting reamer with this conformation, let alone used one.. These invariably have a left hand spiral and are used with a clockwise rotation, otherwise the propensity to grab would be intolerable. So no spiral reamers for me. Looks like the straight Herdim 1;30 is the way to go, along with an  Alberti peg shaver. Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

You might as well get the herdim shaver to go with the reamer. I have an Alberti and a herdim, and i personally don't find any noticeable difference in performance.
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You might as well get the herdim shaver to go with the reamer. I have an Alberti and a herdim, and i personally don't find any noticeable difference in performance.

 

John, I have settled on the reamer, but which one of the Herdim  peg shapers would you recommend ? I see that Dick have two Herdim peg shapers, one does pegs at 8mm diameter and up, and the other does 7.5mm and down. I suppose what I really need to know is which diameters are readily available to buy online (I am not going to make them from scratch) . Also, I am never going to need to fit pegs to a viola or a cello.

I suppose another question would be, do violinists prefer larger diameter pegs, or smaller , or do they even care? I would have guessed that a smaller diameter provides more sensitivity in tuning , but that could be a fallacy.

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The no backlash does seem impossible but that's what it is. I've been very happy with these. They are a bit expensive for the average hobbyist who might make 3 violins in a lifetime and I probably wouldn't recommend them to someone like that, but if you are doing a lot of work, the Berbuers are hard to beat. They paid for themselves very quickly for me. They are especially handy with old stuff where you don't want to touch the pegbox and you just want to touch the pegs up a bit. You have complete control over the taper and depth of cut. I will often take just dust shavings off of one side of the peg in order to fine tune the fit. They really increased my results.

I've tried just about everything on the market and it's not that my results were bad with other shapers (including homemade ones). The results were actually just fine. Most people were fine with my pegs, including some very picky luthiers. But I'd say my results are a notch higher with the Berbuers.

Incidentally, I still kept my Alberti shapers. They are beautifully made and work quite well. I still use them and would still recommend them. I just do the final stretch with the Berbuers.

 Ive used  a the berbuer  wirbelschneider since they first came out. one little thing irritated me was the  rubber o ring that slips ,i changed for a flat stronger band . Not  a real complaint.

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John, I have settled on the reamer, but which one of the Herdim  peg shapers would you recommend ? I see that Dick have two Herdim peg shapers, one does pegs at 8mm diameter and up, and the other does 7.5mm and down. I suppose what I really need to know is which diameters are readily available to buy online (I am not going to make them from scratch) . Also, I am never going to need to fit pegs to a viola or a cello.

I suppose another question would be, do violinists prefer larger diameter pegs, or smaller , or do they even care? I would have guessed that a smaller diameter provides more sensitivity in tuning , but that could be a fallacy.

I think you will get different answers to this depending on who you ask, and people will be able to make a convincing case for whatever size they use. I use the 8mm and up herdim shaver, and bought the alberti one that has 2 sizes smaller than this because I had a notion  that I'd like to try thinner pegs. I never use it though, because I find pegs much thinner than 8mm look a bit "spindly" and sometimes feel a bit spongy due to flexing when you turn them. You can always make the 8mm hole shave smaller by using sandpaper shims anyway, if you so desire.

If you get the 7.5mm and down I don't think you'll ever use the smaller holes, whereas the bigger holes on the 8mm one are used to do the initial shaving of supplied pegs that are often (usually) too thick to go straight to the 8mm hole. Also the bigger holes are useful for end pins and bushings.

I have to say that the Alberti shavers are lovely things, but to me they don't actually produce superior results to the herdim tool, which I think is a fair bit cheaper taking into account current exchange rates and shipping costs.

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I think you will get different answers to this depending on who you ask, and people will be able to make a convincing case for whatever size they use. I use the 8mm and up herdim shaver, and bought the alberti one that has 2 sizes smaller than this because I had a notion  that I'd like to try thinner pegs. I never use it though, because I find pegs much thinner than 8mm look a bit "spindly" and sometimes feel a bit spongy due to flexing when you turn them. You can always make the 8mm hole shave smaller by using sandpaper shims anyway, if you so desire.

If you get the 7.5mm and down I don't think you'll ever use the smaller holes, whereas the bigger holes on the 8mm one are used to do the initial shaving of supplied pegs that are often (usually) too thick to go straight to the 8mm hole. Also the bigger holes are useful for end pins and bushings.

I have to say that the Alberti shavers are lovely things, but to me they don't actually produce superior results to the herdim tool, which I think is a fair bit cheaper taking into account current exchange rates and shipping costs.

 

Excellent info. I will order the straight TIN coated 1:30 reamer and the larger shaper now. Thanks.

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Excellent info. I will order the straight TIN coated 1:30 reamer and the larger shaper now. Thanks.

worth buying one replacement HSS blade for your 8mm hole. Only costs a few Euros.

https://www.dictum.com/en/musical-instrument-making/special-tools-for-musical-instruments/herdim-peg-shapers/730109/hss-replacement-blade-for-herdim-peg-shapers-50-mm?ffRefKey=NjAYkYO0q

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  I would have guessed that a smaller diameter provides more sensitivity in tuning , but that could be a fallacy.

It does. A given amount of peg rotation will produce less pitch change on a smaller diameter peg, than on a large one. The rotational force required to counter the tension of the string is also reduced.

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Drat !  already paid ! I'll get one with the next order.

 

Since it's HSS it should be able to stand re-sharpening without losing any edge temper. I have a very sophisticated sharpening jig with every grit of DMT diamond stone in it which will  handle it. 

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what is the difference between the Hedim Tin coated and uncoated reamers? does the tinned reduce the possibility of corrosion? if so is this really an issue with well cared for tools?

 

TiN (titanium nitride) coating certainly makes a difference in the drilling performance of twist drills, both in in terms of longevity of edge and in smoothness of cut, at least when you are working in metal.

Whether it has any  perceptible benefit in a manually operated reamer in wood I have no idea. I bought the TiN coated one because it looks nicer IMO.

If you leave a TiN coated drill exposed to the elements for any length of time it will certainly begin to rust, and fairly quickly.

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