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Any Reputable Ebay Violin Sellers???


tara81662l

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It sounds to me that ebay wouldn't be appropriate at all. I guess the problem here too is how much service value you could get from dealers five hours away.

The bows can certainly be faked. Many dealers however will allow you to try several bows by post on approval. You would of course incur postage. I tried three coda bows from a uk dealer and ended up returning them all. I think you can do better for the money.

I recall that some dealers will allow violins out on approval but you would have to have at least tried them. In that way the teacher could hear them. The solution? Apart from several maestronetters who may contact you, I would make a trip to a city with several dealers and maybe stay the weekend!

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I live in South Florida. 

 

Please tell me there is not as much fraud in buying bows as there can be in violins.

 

Do people carve fake names into them, distress them to appear old, use cheap wood and call it something else in hopes of finding people like me?  :-)

 

I have never had a drink in my life but surely this buying instrument stuff is going to drive me beyond my drink of choice....Shirley Temples!  

  1. You have my sincerest sympathy [Looks out her door and sees a wide vista of lovely pine-scented forest without a single python, cobra, neighbor's house, or dog-stomping psychopath in sight].  
  2. No, there's considerably more.
  3. Yes.
  4. May I suggest Singapore Slings, gin and tonic, or mint juleps?  :)  ;)  :lol:  :ph34r:
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...and yes...the rule of thumb for beginners is to spend about 1/3 the cost of the violin on the bow...

 

But that's more just to remind people not to skimp on the bow...you can't play the violin without one...and a decent bow makes a huge difference...

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Hello. Tara.  A word of caution with regard to "teacher approval"    Many teachers recieve a payment from the violin seller. As you might imagine , no payments are made when the teacher does not recommend the violin. You , the buyer are kept out of the loop with regard  to the payment and while you are the one actually paying the teacher the payment, you will most often know nothing about it.  It is a classic potential "conflict of interest" situation.

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Hello. Tara.  A word of caution with regard to "teacher approval"    Many teachers recieve a payment from the violin seller. As you might imagine , no payments are made when the teacher does not recommend the violin. You , the buyer are kept out of the loop with regard  to the payment and while you are the one actually paying the teacher the payment, you will most often know nothing about it.  It is a classic potential "conflict of interest" situation.

 

This can be mitigated in many cases by simply asking the seller what their policies and procedures are.  Many shops, and teachers, actively avoid the practice.

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Lorenzo makes a sensible observation. Do you trust your teacher? Well I trust mine and I would also value her opinion before I bought something. Problem is, due to her availability I've only once got her view on anything beforehand except on some bows.

Tara mentioned bows. As Rue says it is vital to have a good bow otherwise it could hold back the player. Ebay is not good at all for bows.....yes worse than for violins. I agree totally with all those above who say get yourselves to a violin shop/s, preferably that will allow you to trial some alternatives.

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I live in South Florida and hear there are some dealers about 4 to 5 hours away. My only challenge is I want her teacher to listen to them as well. We do have some competition stuff coming up and she will be trying to qualify for all-states this year where several dealers attend. 

 

Also I have been focusing so much on the violin I read some posts about bows which completely slipped my mind. Right now she plays on a 3/4 Coda Bow but I suppose I need to wake up as she will need a full size bow too.

 

  

 

Have you considered renting ? From a good shop . You'd get a well set up violin and a usable surprise free bow and gain time to shop for something better. I was told Coda bows are good for learners because they are very predictable. Consistent.

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Greetings, 

 

I have been reading various posts regarding Ebay violins. I am a mom trying to buy my daughter a full size violin. I am in awe of the experience shared here in your posts. What you can see from a picture is amazing and I hope to continue learning before making the plunge. 

 

My question is are there any consistently reputable sellers of antique violin sellers on Ebay?  I am looking for a violin in the 1870 to 1920 range. Cost no more than $2500, preferably lighter weight. Looking for a good higher level orchestra violin. She does some competitions and is currently playing a Jacobus Steiner copy that her teacher loves in terms of sound. Main objective is to find something authentic that sounds good. 

 

If I should be thinking about something else because I am a newbie, please share. I can tell from your posts that items such as f-holes, scrolls, cracks, repairs, are important. Maybe the best option is a seller who gladly accepts returns if you don't like it. 

 

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

 

Disclaimer:  the following is opinion only based on my experience as parent.

 

Another point is new v's old violin.  If your aims are the same as mine, that is to have a violin that my child actually likes to play, has some attachment to, and can sound good on, then the only reason to get an old violin is if that is what she wants.  There is a debate about whether old violins sound better than new instruments but I don't think this applies at the student level of instrument where the sound quality varies greatly.  In fact, as Martin alludes to, at the same price point the modern instruments may have the advantage in sound. I don't specifically aim for either "old" or "new", just what my child likes playing on the most.

 

If you're thinking of the long term appreciation v's depreciation in value then I don't think this is much of an issue at the student level of violin, compared with the cost of lessons and time spent learning.

 

The main problem with old violins is that, unless they have been recently reconditioned, they are likely to need the ongoing attentions of a luthier, especially in a hot, humid climate.  See discussions on hide glue and what happens in humid environments.  This is, of course, more of a problem if you don't have a competent repair facility locally.  Of course, the new violins, depending on where you get them, may need an initial set up, but so far they have been rock solid and I live in the wet tropics.

 

I've found that the children feel more of a sense of ownership if they can choose their own violin out of a batch, (but this is difficult unless you go slightly insane like me and start a violin "collection", not recommended.) Also, for some reason, different violins and bow combinations seem to work differently for each child.  Not sure if they would adapt eventually to any instrument but they sound noticeably better on their own instrument than when playing on their siblings instruments. 

 

My 14 year old plays on an old Klingenthal (and I must thank maestronet and Jacob Saunders especially for the information that lead to its purchase.) http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330514-violin-id/?hl=klingenthal#entry629639

My 12  year old plays on a modern Chinese instrument and loves it. (eBay)

My 10 year old plays on a Collin Mezin Le Victorieux. (amberviolins.com)

My 8 year old plays on a 3/4 at present.

 

The modern Chinese instrument is the only one that hasn't needed / needs repairs.  Also the kids don't look after their instruments particularly well (gasp) and I cringe somewhat less when the modern Chinese instrument gets abused than the antique ones.

 

I've found getting a suitable matching bow to be even more problematic than finding a suitable violin.  I've also found that the bow makes at least as much difference to their playing as the violin, more so as they advance.

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I will put this out again too:

A few years ago I bought an Eastman LV80 as a spare. If I had started my violin playing career with that violin I would have been one happy camper. It is solid for the price. I paid $350 at the time.

The only reason I sold it was because I hated the orange varnish.

Since then I mucked around with a couple of others. I would have been ahead if I just had kept the Eastman.

Now my back up is a Yitamusic pseudo Maggini copy. It looks nicer...but has other issues.

For a child starting out...I would still recommend the Eastman LV80. When they outgrow it they can keep it as a back-up...or sell it off. You can't really lose.

Buy from a reputable shop though...that has adjusted the set-up if you order one on-line from somewhere...

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Thanks everyone for your thoughts and for Lorenzo's thoughts on teacher trust.  

 

Fortunately in that department, I trust her completely. The violin is our individual purchase and so there is no possibility for her to gain. She is actually the director of the orchestra where my daughter goes to school. She is one of those people that puts in tons of time, goes way out of her way and will do anything to support my daughter's growth, including losing her as a student if she continues to progress.  

 

As for renting Rue, we considered it early on when she began playing at 8. When we did the math, we thought purchasing was a better option for us. She rents a school violin just for orchestra lessons, but we take her's to her private lessons and to the youth orchestra she is in. 

 

Finally, IF she stays engaged with her music (and with pre-teen sightings popping up more I am not sure), my guess is we will invest in a more substantial purchase to support her. That is why I was considering lots of options including Ebay because I am not going to make a huge investment until I see her make the same in practice commitment. What can I say? She is quite talented in many things and can be spectacular if she applied herself more but it is hard to argue when the end results are great grades, well rounded, gifted athlete and a great character. 

 

Personally, I played the cello until the first year in middle school. I am keeping my fingers crossed that she lasts a lot longer than I did. 

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I'm still unclear as to the level/standard this violin is for. If this is to be an instrument to take someone to uk grade 8 then the Eastman might do at a push. Given Tara's budget she could afford something that might last her daughter a lot longer.

CS not sure if you can rent at this level? I know you can rent student stuff but this sounds more than that. Agree that a newer well made violin might be a more practical instrument given your climate. I have an old violin and another from 1982. They are very different but both would get grade 8 if played right. I wouldn't shy away from good quality Chinese stuff - Jay Haide is supposed to be good and there are many others with a decent reputation.

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CS not sure if you can rent at this level? I know you can rent student stuff but this sounds more than that. 

 

Oh, yes - you can rent at any level. You can rent a Strad. If Tara's daughter is a "normal" 12 y/o then she's going to do just fine on a good rented instrument. I maintain (? :) ) a small "rental fleet" and some of the better ( $3-400 ) Chinese instruments are perfectly serviceable after going through

a set up process. One of them and not the best one, plays every month a couple of Brahms / Beethoven Sonatas, Debussy, Ravel, Frank, Sarasate, Mozart concertos, Chausson, Saint Saens etc and sometimes with orchestra behind. With a $60 bow. The set up must be more relaxed so that the instrument does not need "pushing" but otherwise, people tend to grossly over estimate their violin needs. I think some better workshops re graduate those instruments to a more classical pattern. One of those would be a real winner and I suspect it would fit comfortably in $2.5k, decent bow included.

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Actually, I'm not really a 'rent to start with' proponent, although I think it's a viable option in many cases.

For my 3 kids...I bought used instruments as well (tenor sax, flute, trombone, 3 oboes and 2 pianos in total :ph34r:). Had no issues. But I tried to shop wisely.  For myself I have purchased numerous relatively inexpensive violins, violas,  mandolins, banjo mandolins, a soprano sax and a bassoon...so I've been around... ^_^.  There was a short-lived guitar purchase in there too  <_<.

But...for a violin...you want a decent sound...and good playability - at a low price. And for that eBay isn't the place to start.
 

... but otherwise, people tend to grossly over estimate their violin needs. ...


What do you consider those needs to consist of? Knowing what that is greatly aids in the shopping process :)

Even though this my area of interest (beginner and step-up instruments) and I have sorted it out for myself (more or less)...when I read advice from others it often contradicts itself - or at least seems to. 

 

On another forum...a young man (in University) just made a step-up purchase (he said he is in Suzuki Book 4).  He bought a newish hand-crafted violin with the assistance of a qualified luthier helping him...for $2800.  I said if he was happy, this was a good deal.  Another poster immediately told him he spent too much money.

 

Yet...others will tell parents of rank beginners that something like the Eastman LV80 isn't 'good enough' to start with and that they won't get a decent beginner instrument for under $2500.

 

And it is a jungle out there.  The variety, the advice, the availability of shops and instruments - or lack thereof...all complicate the process of finding a serviceable instrument.

 

I commissioned my 'good violin' in part - to get a violin I know I won't outgrow.  It's more than I need...but knowing that any issues I make are soley mine...and not due to deficiencies in my instrument is a great stress relief when it comes to playing!  Worth every dime! :wub:.  If you can afford it...you certainly can buy more than you need...but it does cost you.

 

So what do you want to look for in a beginner instrument?  To what level should a beginning instrument take you?  What do you need in a step-up instrument...to what level should that take you?

 

If I was starting a child on the violin today...knowing what I know...I would start with something like the Eastman LV80.  I think that should easily take them to Suzuki Book 4/ RCM Grade 5 or 6.  Then the fun of shopping for a step-up instrument begins. :)

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What do you consider those needs to consist of? Knowing what that is greatly aids in the shopping process :)

 

 

Rue, one ( who learns :) ) needs a violin with clear and focused tone - easy to figure out the pitch on. Particularly under the ear, a lot of violins are so fuzzy , even pros get confused. Some violins are hard to play in tune - I don't know why but it's a pretty uniform observation among professionals. Another "feature" is for the violin to quickly build up consonance in double stops - not all do that and some very good ones don't. They don't settle quickly enough. Again, that makes good intonation more difficult, more tiring to achieve and hence less interest in practicing. The strings must be balanced and that depends a lot on "correct" construction. For a learner, you want a violin where more or less equal bow pressure causes more or less similar volume. This is a gross over simplification, I know. You don't want a bassy violin - one with lots of G and D. It's not how violins should sound !

 

"Obnoxiousness" in violins, which is commonly considered bad tone, is mostly due to improper sound post / bridge / afterlength and sometimes string choice. ( you read this twice ! :)  )   

 

The better, couple of 100s bucks Chinese violins, regraduated by AN EXPERT and with a set up done right will blow out of the water lots of decrepit stuff. Mind you, work must be done by an expert, not by a maestronet lurker or a retiree "with a passion for violins". Violins are not a hobby. Bowling is.

An expert, compares with the latest Strad he's worked on. Somebody in the rubbish removal business compares with the last rubbish removed.

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The better, couple of 100s bucks Chinese violins, regraduated by AN EXPERT and with a set up done right will blow out of the water lots of decrepit stuff. Mind you, work must be done by an expert, not by a maestronet lurker or a retiree "with a passion for violins". Violins are not a hobby. Bowling is.

An expert, compares with the latest Strad he's worked on. Somebody in the rubbish removal business compares with the last rubbish removed.

 

You not only obviously have some egregious misconceptions about how those of us who work with less pretentious instruments conduct our business, but also have managed to impertinently libel, besides myself, some of the most active, enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and conscientious members on this board.  An apology is in order.

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You not only obviously have some egregious misconceptions about how those of us who work with less pretentious instruments conduct our business, but also have managed to impertinently libel, besides myself, some of the most active, enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and conscientious members on this board.  An apology is in order.

 

You didn't think I was talking about you, did you ???  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  And who's the other ones on MN who fit my description ?

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You not only obviously have some egregious misconceptions about how those of us who work with less pretentious instruments 

 

And I don't have any misconceptions : I have 45 years of experience observing incompetents trying to make a living "at violins", often in horribly unfair competition with decent people who have a shop, supply a decent and responsible service and eventually train and employ others. The recycling of junk hurts new making , too.  But one doesn't know what one doesn't know.

 

My only concern here is to give the OP the best advice I can. I wasn't aware there is a Trade Union for the "recyclers".  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

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"""The tone of this violin is brilliant; with resonance, depth and a full, rich, layered sound.
It is superbly even across the strings, clean, clear, precise and focused. The sound has none of the shrill, strident thinness that often is called bright but is really nasty. This is the rich, colorful sound of the best soprano, brilliant but rounded, penetrating but resonant, sparkling but clean and clear. this is a violin with a powerful and robust feel, not only under the ear but in the audience.  There is nothing shy about this violin's sound-it has presence and power. And this violin has just the kind of energetic focus that makes it superbly suited to leading a large orchestra in a big hall. The violin is ready to play and has excellent classical measurements.
"""

 

Now that's how pahdah_hound does it ! The RIGHT way !

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extraordinary-Antique-Markneukirchen-German-Violin-Excellent-Original-Condition-/331638507307

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"""The tone of this violin is brilliant; with resonance, depth and a full, rich, layered sound.

It is superbly even across the strings, clean, clear, precise and focused. The sound has none of the shrill, strident thinness that often is called bright but is really nasty. This is the rich, colorful sound of the best soprano, brilliant but rounded, penetrating but resonant, sparkling but clean and clear. this is a violin with a powerful and robust feel, not only under the ear but in the audience.  There is nothing shy about this violin's sound-it has presence and power. And this violin has just the kind of energetic focus that makes it superbly suited to leading a large orchestra in a big hall. The violin is ready to play and has excellent classical measurements. """

 

Now that's how pahdah_hound does it ! The RIGHT way !

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extraordinary-Antique-Markneukirchen-German-Violin-Excellent-Original-Condition-/331638507307

Yup.  A shining example and an inspiration to us all.   :)  :lol:

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IMHO, the most important part of a Pahdah offering is this:

 

This is a real auction. 
 
There is no reserve and no minimum beyond the opening bid.  
 
The high bidder will win the violin regardless of price.
 
 
 
 Please check my feedback. Look at the hundreds of old violins that have found happy owners.  My violins are as I describe them and well worth whatever you pay.
 
 
 
If you win this violin and don't like it, you can return it for a full refund or you are welcome to try another.  No hassles and no arguments.  The only things I ask, are to let me know if you are going to keep it or return it within 14 days. If you choose to return it, I will promptly refund your money in full (less shipping) upon its safe return. If you need more than 14 days, just ask. No refunds more than 30 days from the auction's end.
 
 
 
Please contact me directly if there are any questions, concerns, problems or issues. Contact me first if you plan to return the violin and I will take care of everything in a prompt and professional manner. 
 
I am dedicated to excellent customer service.
 
 
 
 
I pack in new, custom-made shipping cartons.  I use all new materials designed to provide superior protection for old violins. I ship very fast, usually within 24 hours of payment-or less.  You can expect your package to arrive safely within a couple of days of your payment.
 
 
Anything there that anyone has a problem with?
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