Best granular hide glue?

[Nick Allen]

Hello,

 

I am about to buy some hide glue to glue the blocks to my new form, and am having some trouble as to what brand or make to get. I am aware that ~190 gram strength is around what luthiers tend to use, so It's more a matter of where is the best place to get it from?

 

Thanks!

[Michael.N.]

I bought mine from Kremer. Mixed it 50/50 with some bone pearl glue (not the really dark stuff) that I happened to have. I ended up with a huge bag that has lasted me near 8 years. I'm running low. What can I say, it's stood the test of time, been used on all sorts of wood types, all manner of things musical and a bunch of stuff that isn't musical.

I doubt there's a best. Most makers want a high clarity glue. I'm pretty sure there are a number of places that sell that. Always test when you get a new batch in.

[Michael_Molnar]

 I bought mine years ago from Bjorn Industries. Like Michael, I still have a lot. Talk to Eugene at Bjorn.

[yancypup]

I get it from International Violin and use the 222 grade.  I have the 315 grade as well but it has a much shorter working time.  The higher the number, the greater the strength, although I imagine how thin you get it might also influence the strength.  I don't know that for sure.  My first attempt at gluing on a top was hard since I mixed 315 way to thick which resulted in an almost zero working time.  I was working in  a cold basement which didn't help.  I now mix it much thinner as my teacher has taught me with much improved results.

[DarylG]

You might find this interesting...

 

http://fixitwithshading.com/2015/08/02/the-ultimate-glue-test/

 

Also, her comics are hilarious!

[duane88]

I get some "technical gelatin" called Geltack from Ulrich Holfter.

 

Clear,strong, doesn't smell too bad...makes great jello with Koolaid.

[MJ Kwan]

Thanks for the mention, DarylG!

 

I've heard that a lot of places sell hide glue made by Milligan & Higgins. You should be able to order directly from the source using the contact info on their site: http://www.milligan1868.com/glue.html

[Jeffrey Holmes]

I most usually use M & H 192 high clarity.  I've also had good experiences with technivcal gels and with Bjorn glues.

 

Yancypup; even that strength I dilute quite a bit before I glue a top on.  Remember, somebody's probably going to have to remove it sooner of later.  Some restorers I know use a dilute bone glue for this operation.

 

One thing I didn't notice in the glue tests on MJ's page.  The glue manufactures have mentioned that glue gains strength if it's made, allowed to gel, then reheated.  Can't argue... seems they are right on.  How much improvement?  I don't know.

[MJ Kwan]

That's possible... at school, people don't like to use super freshly-made glue for really important things like center joints.

Maybe we'll have to try testing that. (More excuses to break stuff, yay.)

 

Does that mean dissolve in water, heat it up, cool it until it turns to jello, and then heat a second time and use?

[DarylG]

That would be interesting to test Jeffrey. I was taught to do the same but stopped a few years ago after I asked Eugene Thordahl about it and he didn't agree with the practice. He said that the maximum strength was achieved on first mixing and that the chemistry of the glue didn't change with a heat-cool-reheat cycle. It made sense to me since the glue seems to degrade with time.

[Nick Allen]

I gave the dude from Bjorn an email about price inquiries. I was shopping around and saw some liquid stuff, which I will assume is garbage. Also, I saw some stuff called "fish glue", and people said that it has the same properties of HHG but it tends to give after about a year or so, or exposure to high humidity. I guess there really is no magic bullet!

[Michael.N.]

Was that liquid Fish glue?

[captainhook]

That would be interesting to test Jeffrey. I was taught to do the same but stopped a few years ago after I asked Eugene Thordahl about it and he didn't agree with the practice. He said that the maximum strength was achieved on first mixing and that the chemistry of the glue didn't change with a heat-cool-reheat cycle. It made sense to me since the glue seems to degrade with time.

It may depend on the particular batch of glue. What I've been using for a while is a little hard to dissolve completely, even after an hour or so of heating. Reheating a time or two helps clear it up. I don't know why, and other batches I've used weren't that way. My glue doesn't noticeably degrade, but I add a potent preservative.

[DarylG]

It may depend on the particular batch of glue. What I've been using for a while is a little hard to dissolve completely, even after an hour or so of heating. Reheating a time or two helps clear it up. I don't know why, and other batches I've used weren't that way. My glue doesn't noticeably degrade, but I add a potent preservative.

 

Yes, you may be right. I'm using Bjorn 315 high clarity and only need soak it for 30 mins then heat it up and it's ready to use.

[Dwight Brown]

I loved the web site and the glue test.  The young lady is delightful!

 

 

dlb

[Michael.N.]

She could get a job in TV or Radio, not silly Violin making or repair . More money, greater fame, more respect, greater job security.

What on earth was she thinking?

[Michael_Molnar]

Yes, you may be right. I'm using Bjorn 315 high clarity and only need soak it for 30 mins then heat it up and it's ready to use.

This is what I have used since 2009. It takes me only 15 minutes to heat it up in a custard dish placed at the bottom of my glue pot.

[mrbadger]

I'll use isinglass glue <<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isinglass>> occasionally for repairing cracks and difficult repairs. It maintains its full strength at lower viscosity than other collagen glues and so is excellent for penetrating cracks. It also gels at lower temperatures and so provides a longer working time for difficult gluing situations. Also stronger than hide glue. 

 

It's very expensive for a glue. 12.5 Euro for 20 grams at Kremer, Germany. Kremer, US, apparently no longer carries it. I keep a small quantity on hand and use it very sparingly only when needed. 

 

The true isinglass comes from the swim bladder of the sturgeon, an endangered species. Kremer, however, uses swim bladders from farm raised sturgeon used in caviar production.