Matching This Color Varnish

[Kallie]

Hi,

 

I received a violin recently to repair with the top plate sanded down. Apparently someone in the family (the family to whom the violin belongs to) thought it would be a good idea to remove the varnish with sandpaper, thus, leaving the top in terrible shape.

 

I've already cleaned the top plate and removed most of the sandpaper marks, so I thought I would ask for advice here so long on getting the color matched to the back and sides.

 

I haven't varnished a dark violin yet, so thought I would ask here first. I also plan on testing everything first on a "test violin" I have available.

The violin appears brown, but in light a more reddish color.

 

Any idea which pigments I can try or what varnish to use?

 

I'll add pictures below. Any useful advice would be very helpful. Thank you.

[uncle duke]

I guess work on the gold ground color and buy some tube burnt sienna and maybe purple alizarin.  That's what I'd try just by trying to match your pictures but how accurate are they really?   Then if it was spirit varnish originally you may have to forget what I just said about tube colors, sorry.

 

I just read what Molnar said.  I would get the yellow/gold color first with shellac and purchase the burnt sienna, purple alizarin and brown madder.  If I can't match I'd keep searching until found.  It would be done with oil even though spirit was probably used.  I replied because no one else did knowing everyone and their mother looked at what was posted and didn't bother helping. 

[Michael_Molnar]

You need to get advice from a REPAIR expert with experience and not go with any guesses or opinions. I am interested in what they say.

[FredN]

Hi Kallie, do you know how valuable is it, and owners concern to keep that finish. If it is just another inst and the owner doesn't want to put put out the large bucks needed for the restoration, I'd strip it,  covering the whole inst with the dissolved stuff so the color and varnish content is similar throughout. Having a start like that would give you the opportunity to produce  a really nice finish, owner would be happy and you would be happy with the results. fred

[Kallie]

Hi Kallie, do you know how valuable is it, and owners concern to keep that finish. If it is just another inst and the owner doesn't want to put put out the large bucks needed for the restoration, I'd strip it,  covering the whole inst with the dissolved stuff so the color and varnish content is similar throughout. Having a start like that would give you the opportunity to produce  a really nice finish, owner would be happy and you would be happy with the results. fred

 

The violin was taken to a violin maker and expert, who identified it as a French Trade violin. It has the usual "Stradivarius" label. Since the top was stripped, what value it had is most likely shot, so other than it making a nice playing violin, I doubt it will be worth anything. The quote he gave to repair was obviously higher than the value of the violin.

 

I thought it would be nice to try and see how close I can get to the original varnish without stripping the rest. If all else fails, and the varnish end up not matching to their liking, I will ask if they are interested in what you suggested. If they wanted this, how would you go about stripping and dissolving the remaining varnish to use as varnish for the whole violin?

 

Thank you.

[Kallie]

I guess work on the gold ground color and buy some tube burnt sienna and maybe purple alizarin.  That's what I'd try just by trying to match your pictures but how accurate are they really?   Then if it was spirit varnish originally you may have to forget what I just said about tube colors, sorry.

 

I just read what Molnar said.  I would get the yellow/gold color first with shellac and purchase the burnt sienna, purple alizarin and brown madder.  If I can't match I'd keep searching until found.  It would be done with oil even though spirit was probably used.  I replied because no one else did knowing everyone and their mother looked at what was posted and didn't bother helping. 

Thank you for the suggestion. I always appreciate any input and advice. If it doesn't work now, it might work for a future project.

 

I'm going to try and get Burnt Sienna and Purple Alizarin tomorrow, and see how it matches in the light next to the violin. Already have brown madder.

[Michael Richwine]

On my calibrated monitor that I use for matching images to the actual instrument, I get a purplish brown color on one, a more neutral red-brown on another, and a dark, shaded red on another, so it's kinda hard to tell.  I'd start with just pure red and black to get the basic shade, and then tint with yellow or blue until it came in to match the original in diffuse daylight.

 

I did touchup on furniture for $80 an hour for a few years, then had to adapt those skills for violin repair, so at least I've done it for a living for a while.

[Michael.N.]

Test strips (lot's of them) and try to get the base (ground) colour of them close to what's on the actual Violin. Practice until you are happy with the match.

[Michael Doran]

I'd strip it,  covering the whole inst with the dissolved stuff so the color and varnish content is similar throughout. fred

I've never heard of stripping varnish and still being able to use it as color for a re-varnish. I'm skeptical that it would work. Have you successfully done this before?

M

[actonern]

Joe Robson`s purple and rose varnishes mixed about 50 50 will bring you very close...

[Carl Stross]

I've never heard of stripping varnish and still being able to use it as color for a re-varnish. I'm skeptical that it would work. Have you successfully done this before?

M

 

I did twice and worked 100%. But I didn't strip it - I scraped it. Then I dissolved, applied and "cultivate".

[yancypup]

IV sells varnish colorants for six bucks a bottle and they have a lot of different colors.  They work in oil and spirit varnishes.  You may be able to blend them to get a match.

[Kallie]

Thanx everyone for the replies and recommendations. I'll see what works and let you know how it goes.

[DarylG]

I'm going to try and get Burnt Sienna and Purple Alizarin tomorrow, and see how it matches in the light next to the violin. Already have brown madder.

 

I suspect the original varnish was spirit and I'd be inclined to use that to re-varnish the top. One advantage of spirit is the greater choice of transparent colors available. This will make it much easier to match the original color. Tube pigments aren't transparent and to achieve that level of darkness with them you will inevitably have a transparency difference between the old and new varnish.

[FredN]

Kallie, by all means try to restore the top without stripping, you always have that to fall back on. Carl Stoss post is really what I do but I first soften the coat with stripper. To get a uniform surface throughout the inst,  just coat the top with the stuff from the back as you are wiping it off. IMPORTANT, DO Not use a remover that has methylene chloride in it, it is rapidly adsorbed in the eyes, and an industrial cause for cataracts. Two removers to review is Soy Gel and Ready Strip. Soy Gel is the very safe one,  I got used to using Ready Strip. All you need is lots of wipe-on paper, make plastic scrapers with shapes to get in all the inst shapes, and those plastic netted balls they sell to clean pots for a final cleaning.